Definitely 120mm.
Size comparison with a 105mm M735:
The DM43 is 71mm long. I am not sure it is an actual DM43, might be a test model.
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Medium calibre modern AP collection
- Thread starter Haenosaki
- Start date
Definitely 120mm.
Size comparison with a 105mm M735:
The DM43 is 71mm long. I am not sure it is an actual DM43, might be a test model.
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Guest
you can have sabot 120mm, but dart itself look like 105mm APFSDS for german smoothbore 105mm(look at fins of 120 and 105mm)
710mm long ? strange, and diameter ?
120mm DM13
Or, the 105 prototype was not continued and further developed into the 120mm DM13. I have seen the exact same DM13 at the WTD91 in Meppen. This sabot type is not often seen, I think it is a test type. Production DM13 have a shorter front part.
So maybe we are both right, the dart started out as a 105mm experimental, further developed into 120mm and later taken into production as DM13 with a different sabot and tail assembly. What I have is probably the in between version.
Below picture is from the WTD91, the fin shape of that 120mm DM13 is the same as the one I own:
Or, the 105 prototype was not continued and further developed into the 120mm DM13. I have seen the exact same DM13 at the WTD91 in Meppen. This sabot type is not often seen, I think it is a test type. Production DM13 have a shorter front part.
So maybe we are both right, the dart started out as a 105mm experimental, further developed into 120mm and later taken into production as DM13 with a different sabot and tail assembly. What I have is probably the in between version.
Below picture is from the WTD91, the fin shape of that 120mm DM13 is the same as the one I own:
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Hi All,
Latest addition: 60x410 APFSDS for the Chilean 60mmm HVMS gun. Originally developed by IMI of Israel and OTO Melara of Italy, it was not taken into production by Israel or Italy. When Chili wanted to upgrade their M24s and M50s, they were offered the 60mm HVMS gun. As such, they were the only operatioal owners of this gun and its ammunition. (please anybody correct me if I am wrong). If anyone has a correct case for this projectile and is willing to sell, please let me know. Thank you.
Latest addition: 60x410 APFSDS for the Chilean 60mmm HVMS gun. Originally developed by IMI of Israel and OTO Melara of Italy, it was not taken into production by Israel or Italy. When Chili wanted to upgrade their M24s and M50s, they were offered the 60mm HVMS gun. As such, they were the only operatioal owners of this gun and its ammunition. (please anybody correct me if I am wrong). If anyone has a correct case for this projectile and is willing to sell, please let me know. Thank you.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
You are correct: Chile was the only user. A little more detail about this:
Hi Jason,
Yes, it has a tracer.
Besides the M51 and M54 difference, I have seen another different type designation. Unfortunately, I did not think to make a good picture of the whole text:
This picture was also taken at WTD91 in Meppen. A place where they test different types of ammunition before it enters the Bundewehr inventory (so, it seems the 60mm apfsds was tested in Germany, but not taken into operational use).
Dominique
apfsds
Well-Known Member
This is all so fascinating to learn. I have been studying this round for so many years and have never seen these two other variants (Type Designations).
Kinda makes some sense about being tested in, Germany, as well as in the, US by, Aberdeen. There was a guy in, Germany, who had an entire case of the M54 Dummy APFSDS rounds as well as the HE Dummies. I believe he was the original source of most of the specimens in collections. Perhaps the Dummies were designated M54 and the M51 example like yours and possibly the 2nd variant that you just posted, were the type designations for the tactical specimens? All of the M54 Dummies were built without fin assemblies and had an internal rod connecting the dummy primer to the projectile that threaded into the threaded sub-projectile dart's rear, where the stabilizer fins were supposed to be attached.
Either way, congrats big time on this important addition to your collection! ITS BEAUTIFUL!
Jason
Kinda makes some sense about being tested in, Germany, as well as in the, US by, Aberdeen. There was a guy in, Germany, who had an entire case of the M54 Dummy APFSDS rounds as well as the HE Dummies. I believe he was the original source of most of the specimens in collections. Perhaps the Dummies were designated M54 and the M51 example like yours and possibly the 2nd variant that you just posted, were the type designations for the tactical specimens? All of the M54 Dummies were built without fin assemblies and had an internal rod connecting the dummy primer to the projectile that threaded into the threaded sub-projectile dart's rear, where the stabilizer fins were supposed to be attached.
Either way, congrats big time on this important addition to your collection! ITS BEAUTIFUL!
Jason
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Hello all,
An interesting find on yesterdays NVBMB fair. These sabots were sold as scrap. They are all 35mm. Only the second one from the left looks like an in service specimen. The one on the left is quite long. The left two are a single petal each, the right three are complete sets. All fired. Has anybody seen these before and have more information?
Thanks,
An interesting find on yesterdays NVBMB fair. These sabots were sold as scrap. They are all 35mm. Only the second one from the left looks like an in service specimen. The one on the left is quite long. The left two are a single petal each, the right three are complete sets. All fired. Has anybody seen these before and have more information?
Thanks,
Spaceinvader
Well-Known Member
It has been awhile since we last talked Dominique!
Funnily enough I happened to be able to locate myself a nice Israeli 60mm casing late last year. It’s currently with a friend in the US but an APFSDS projectile is my goal to completely it! Very nice collection as well, trying not to drool LOL
Funnily enough I happened to be able to locate myself a nice Israeli 60mm casing late last year. It’s currently with a friend in the US but an APFSDS projectile is my goal to completely it! Very nice collection as well, trying not to drool LOL
After a long pause due to the Covid situation, we were finally able to get together again as collectors (with the appropriate safety measures).
So I was able to pick up all the rounds I had bought from other collectors in the past months.
The latest additions to the collection:
Two Swiss 20x110 Hispano AP (white and black one)
Two Swedish 20x110 Hispano AP (One with and one without the little crown)
40L60 M81A1 AP-T
40L70 AP
20pdr APDS core
90mm HVAP-T core
A British 120mm PRAC DS in excellent condition
British 120mm L23A1 APFSDS penetrator.
If I have made any mistakes in naming these, please let me know.
So I was able to pick up all the rounds I had bought from other collectors in the past months.
The latest additions to the collection:
Two Swiss 20x110 Hispano AP (white and black one)
Two Swedish 20x110 Hispano AP (One with and one without the little crown)
40L60 M81A1 AP-T
40L70 AP
20pdr APDS core
90mm HVAP-T core
A British 120mm PRAC DS in excellent condition
British 120mm L23A1 APFSDS penetrator.
If I have made any mistakes in naming these, please let me know.
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With the help of member US-Subs, i finally found the type designation of this round. It is a 90mm APFSDS for the Cockerill Mk7 gun. The round is made by PRB in Belgium (out of business since 1993).
Type designation is CTG NR320.
