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Medium calibre modern AP collection

Hi Tony, thank you for the additional information. I was familiair with the AMX-13 AA, but did not realize it used the KCB cannon.
Just to check for my understanding. The Oerlikon KCB has been used in other applications, French AA and with the Royal Navy. Was the specific round I have, also used for those aplications, or developed specifically for the German Matador project? I looked around, and I did not find any AP round being advertised for the Korean AA gun. Just HE types and TP.
 
The Oerlikon KCB and its ammo has a long and strange history. It started with a Hispano-Suiza project just before WW2, the HS 411 (the cartridge case seems to be just a necked-out and slightly lengthened version of the 25 x 163 Hotchkiss AA round). Work on this stopped with the fall of France, but data was sent to HS factories in Switzerland and Britain (BMARCo). At least one gun was demonstrated in Britain in 1942 (I don't know if it was an import or made by BMARCo) and several batches of ammo were made for it by Royal Laboratories. The British government rejected it, so work switched to HSS (Switzerland) which changed the designation to HS 830, later developed into the HS 831. These initially used brass-case ammo, with steel-cased coming later. Round about 1970 Oerlikon took over HSS and the gun was renamed KCB. It now, of course, belongs to Rheinmetall. At about the same time, the cartridge was adopted for the British Rarden AFV cannon, only with a brass case again.

The KCB has seen most use in naval AA mountings, as I said. About 160 Emerlec 30 twin mountings were made and used by several navies, also single (MSI) and twin (BMARCo) mountings have been used by the RN and several other navies.

A wide range of different ammo has been made for the KCB over the years (plus a different range for the Rarden), the standard warshots being HEI and SAPHEI. The SAPHEI uses a delayed-action base fuze and has a windshield (ballistic cap) over the thick-walled steel projectile which contains 20 g of Hexal P30.
 
Tony Williams said:
The Oerlikon KCB and its ammo has a long and strange history. It started with a Hispano-Suiza project just before WW2, the HS 411 (the cartridge case seems to be just a necked-out and slightly lengthened version of the 25 x 163 Hotchkiss AA round). Work on this stopped with the fall of France, but data was sent to HS factories in Switzerland and Britain (BMARCo). At least one gun was demonstrated in Britain in 1942 (I don't know if it was an import or made by BMARCo) and several batches of ammo were made for it by Royal Laboratories. The British government rejected it, so work switched to HSS (Switzerland) which changed the designation to HS 830, later developed into the HS 831. These initially used brass-case ammo, with steel-cased coming later. Round about 1970 Oerlikon took over HSS and the gun was renamed KCB. It now, of course, belongs to Rheinmetall. At about the same time, the cartridge was adopted for the British Rarden AFV cannon, only with a brass case again.

The KCB has seen most use in naval AA mountings, as I said. About 160 Emerlec 30 twin mountings were made and used by several navies, also single (MSI) and twin (BMARCo) mountings have been used by the RN and several other navies.

A wide range of different ammo has been made for the KCB over the years (plus a different range for the Rarden), the standard warshots being HEI and SAPHEI. The SAPHEI uses a delayed-action base fuze and has a windshield (ballistic cap) over the thick-walled steel projectile which contains 20 g of Hexal P30.
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Tony, thank you for the great information. It is always nice to learn more about the background of the guns and ammo involved.
 
Latest additions

Hi All,
The latest additions. Bit of a lucky find, as I did not know exactly what I was getting. I knew they were penetrators, but the exact type took me a bit of puzzling.
I think I have them correctly identified now:
20x139 dm43 API-T
76mm HVAP UBR-354P
85mm HVAP UBR-365P
100mm APDS 3BM8 / 3BM11
125 APFSDS-T 3BM22
​all.jpg
 
Thanks

Spaceinvader said:
I have no words to describe how jealous I am! those are absolutely amazing!!
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Thanks. I was really lucky. The guy selling them had no idea of their origin and sold them as scrap. I only recognized the 20x139 core, the others I was unfamiliar with. Took me the better part of two weeks of measuring and puzzling to get them right. Mainly because I was first looking at western AP cores. Once I got the tip to look at Russian rounds, it all fell in place. (thanks Dave).
 
Some new additions:
76mm HVAP-T
25x137 APFSDS-T M935A2
25x137 APDS NR124C1
two 20x139 API-T
20x139 APDS (unknown type with short penetrator)
hvap-t.jpgapfsds-t.jpgapds-t.jpg20x139 API-T.jpg20x139 API-T 2.jpg20x139 APDS.jpg
 
Hello All,
Back with the latest additions to the AP collection:
100mm 3BM8 APDS
30x113B AP (2x)
30x173 MPDS (2x)
75mm Recoilless rifle HEAT
20170613_191509.jpg20170613_191248.jpg20170613_191258.jpg20170613_191229.jpg20170613_191222.jpg20170613_191139.jpg
 
Wow, it keeps getting better! Any ideas of what country the 30mm AP are from? Never seen any like that. Just picked up my first British 30mm ADEN AP round last week!
 
The chrome plated AP shellcase has the text Oe on it , which stands for Oerlikon, so presumably they are Swiss.
 
pzgr40 said:
IMI = Israel Military Industries
Oe = Oerlikon
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Thank you pzgr40.
I cannot find any other info on this type of round. Would the red band indicate a tracer (if yes, why not the indication AP-T?)? Does anybody know of any drawings or schematics of the internals?
Thanks in advance.
 
I think, - but cannot prove- it means it has an incendiary effect.
Here a picture of the same projectile, Oerlikon produced
Regards, DJH
 

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Update

Hello All,
An update after a succesfull NVBMB meet yesterday.
With thanks to member Orpheus, for helping me get the Phalanx rounds.
The new additions:
35x228 FAPDS german type
20x102 APDS Mk149 Mod4
20x102 APDS Mk244 Mod0
and seperate cores for both.
Also managed to get an old 100mm case to place my rather scruffy looking 3BM8 APDS round on.
20170827_165659.jpg20170827_165616.jpg20170827_165621.jpg20170827_165626.jpg20170827_165631.jpg
 
Large calibre collection

Hi All,
cleared the house a bit and finally have some room to put the larger pieces in a nice row. This is my current large calibre collection:
20170924_163429.jpg
 
Latest addition, a sectioned counterpart for the 75mm RR HEAT. Fuze is missing, but otherwise an ok cutaway.
 

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