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Proposed Ban by European Commission to include everything collected by BOCN members?

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bdgreen said:
Being discussed here: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18120

Quote: "Yes, this will stop any sale of grenades or artillery fuzes or bombs, even if deactivated since this stuff is included in category A"
Click to expand...


In regard to the actual proposed ban a link to the correct text would be useful. An out of context anonymous quote is inflammatory and does not help. In most international treaties there are clauses/caveats that protect each country's right to maintain history. This includes the chemical weapons treaty, the BW treaty, landmines, etc. With variations in text, generally the items must still be "destroyed" but - with other caveats being met, "may be destroyed in such a manner as to not to preclude their use for training or display". Understand the concerns over terrorism, pick your fights. In some cases the intent is not to ban before, but to prosecute after.
 
looking at page 8,
it states that category A weapons including military even if deactivated,can only be owned or traded by museums.
So all these re enactors and collectors that contribute to the war time commemorative events such as we've recently had.
Will have to give it all up will they?
And no authentic weapons in films.Historical pieces only in museums.
And the veterans thought for our freedom,freedom to rob us!
 
Today the news said most of the weapons used in Paris were manufactured in Serbia so (not only) the english reenactors are clearly responsible and a threat to the security of the fellow europeans.
I think anyone can see this clearly now.
Bob
 
Signed, this is what I said in the comments box...

I collect inert WW2 ordnance for museum display, this ban would effect all museums who make every effort to educate the public through the display of artifacts of the horrors of war.
 
Interesting....

GTA_zps12h5s9wh.jpg
 
Looks like they are writing it as a done deal.
So was the Paris event done with re-activated de-activated weapons ? or is this just another case of the an easy soft target(legitimate collectors)?
 
Kahu1,

There are several news reports that say the Charlie Hebdo attack in January and the attempted attack on the train in August used deactived weapons that were subsequently modified to fire again.

I have not seen anything that states the Paris attacks were done with reactivated deacts.

Please note these are news reports in the press, so I do not know how accurate they are.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/slovaki...-guns-in-two-french-terror-attacks-1448629216

Regards,

Will.
 
Perhaps I am missing something but I have read various documents and cannot find any reference to inert ammunition. Could someone point me to the relevant document.

Fred
 
Hi everyone,
I'd like to comment on this frankly bizarre outrage.

The full proposal (now a 'Regulation' adopted by the Commission and to be implemented) - Proposal for a DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons - has been published in the Official Journal of the European Union - an ominous step forward for it is now... COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2015/2403 of 15 December 2015 establishing common guidelines on deactivation standards and techniques for ensuring that deactivated firearms are rendered irreversibly inoperable.

It contains annexes explaining the specific deactivation procedures required.
There are some worrying provisions that leap out: placing a currently-deactivated weapon on the 'market' (whether for money, free or barter or taken to another member state) means the new directive applies retrospectively.

Oh and it also comes into force (or rather 'came into force') on 8 January, 2016 and applies from 8 April, 2016.

Good news?
Well it doesn't apply to currently-deactivated weapons (so long as you stay put and don't put 'em on the 'market'); doesn't appear be any ban on owning fully-automatic weapons and it says nowt about inert ammunition.

It's dry as dust but worth a gander: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2015:333:FULL&from=EN

Isn't democracy a wonderful thing? Just what my fathers fought for, eh?

Trenchman

 
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With the influx of certain people who want to flood our country not only to claim free this and that and the culture of crime they bring on a big scale and the Austerity cuts we are having in this country plus the closure of police stations on mass across the country, this is the last thing any police force needs, personally don't think it will be enforceable, just like any other EU directive which they keep piling upon other states local government and police can't cope. The EU bring out laws and policies which are the basis for crime to flourish. As for banning types of items ie deacts etc if there is no compensation for items bought in good faith then it's legalised theft by government which I don't take kindly too, personally the EU don't win favour with the people who want to vote out, it will certainly want more to leave. Think of this to those who may not think this example of legislation won't affect them, deacts and inert ordnance today something else which is leagal now may be on the cards to be banned or restricted tommorrow and that can be any hobby. I did hear a while ago that they wanted to licence and tax push bike to raise money for the migrant crisis, but with the EU who knows what they got up their sleeve. Who wants to join a so-called union when it suppresss news from its people and protects the criminal.
 
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Trenchman said:
Hi everyone,
I'd like to comment on this frankly bizarre outrage.

The full proposal (now a 'Regulation' adopted by the Commission and to be implemented) - Proposal for a DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons - has been published in the Official Journal of the European Union - an ominous step forward for it is now... COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2015/2403 of 15 December 2015 establishing common guidelines on deactivation standards and techniques for ensuring that deactivated firearms are rendered irreversibly inoperable.

It contains annexes explaining the specific deactivation procedures required.
There are some worrying provisions that leap out: placing a currently-deactivated weapon on the 'market' (whether for money, free or barter or taken to another member state) means the new directive applies retrospectively.

Oh and it also comes into force (or rather 'came into force') on 8 January, 2016 and applies from 8 April, 2016.

Good news?
Well it doesn't apply to currently-deactivated weapons (so long as you stay put and don't put 'em on the 'market'); doesn't appear be any ban on owning fully-automatic weapons and it says nowt about inert ammunition.

It's dry as dust but worth a gander: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=OJ:L:2015:333:FULL&from=EN

Isn't democracy a wonderful thing? Just what my fathers fought for, eh?

Trenchman
Click to expand...

Hello,

dont be relaxed...
This proposal mentioned above is only dealing with deactivated WEAPONS (means Guns)..
and it says especial in the whole text, that this law (which had to be implemented by the member Governments immediat) does NOT INTERFERE with the proposals, to change the old EU-Directive 411/91..on which they worked for Long..

In this huge text compendium you will find, that all AP-Bullets, Tracer bullets a.s.o., grenades, fuzes a.s.o. and loaded ammo with Special bullets will be categorized in Category A and will be subsequently forbidden for private People, even as deactivated material. It goes also forward, that the (member) governments have to take precautions to take this goods "in"...
No word of refunding..

At least 18 member states MUST refuse this, otherwise this proposal goes into effect !!!

Some "eastern" members , the Finns and the Baltic states had proposed to oppose this, but thats not enough..
I was happy to read, that the german "Bundesrat" has given advise to the government, to refuse the harsh new regualations, as they said, that Germany had already one of the strictest gun laws...
But unfortunatelly, I havent heard more, or how the Government has reacted on this advise..

EU is an abbreviation for EUROPAS UNTERGANG...and this happens since this burocrats in the COMMISSION (from which nobody was elected !!) taken more and more activities from the member states Parliaments under their jurisdictions. Their is NO CONTROL by the People, on their activities...the socalled european parliamet, has no big influence on the work done by the commission (Mr. Juncker and Co)...
So, where is the Democracy???
Sorry, for my english..

Peter
 
Hi Peter,
I have placed your awnser with a link to this BOCN posting on the dutch NVBMB collectorsforum, with a question what the impact will be for dutch collectors.

From the chairman of the Dutch ammunition collectors association I got the next reply:

"I have not been able to find it in the proposal, not either in the reaction of the Dutch justice department

The two proposals relate to -as far as I can see- only to firearms (semi automatic which look like full auto and deactivated)".



Can you please place a copy of the proposal - either a link to- concerning :
"AP-Bullets, Tracer bullets a.s.o., grenades, fuzes a.s.o. and loaded ammo with Special bullets will be categorized in Category A and will be subsequently forbidden for private People, even as deactivated material"
here on the BOCN forum?

Thanks in advance , DJH
 
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