PE No.2 and Nobels 808 sizes?

[WWIIBuff]

Thanks for posting that Anders. It almost looks like clothing line.

 

[Anders]

Thanks for posting that Anders. It almost looks like clothing line.

Yes but do not make that mistake, :tinysmile_classes_t

 

[Houndsworth]

Old conversation but it seems there is still a controversy over the sizes of the WW2 PE and 808. Yodamaster said PE was 19.5 x 3.5 x 226.8 grams (7.7 inch x 1 3/8 x 8 ounce).
And 808 was 7.62 x 4.49 x 113.4 g (3 inch x 1 3/4 x 4 ounce). Bigger diameter.

David Gordon in his great book says P.E. was 1 3/8 inch x 4 for a 4 ouncer. Pretty close to Yodamaster's numbers.

But David said 808 was 1 3/8 x 3 inch for a 4 ouncer. Was it 1 3/8 or 1 3/4? Is there a typo somewhere?

When you look at the photo from Anders, post #48, which I assume is a genuine cartridge of PE2 from the period (if not please say so), it is about the same aspect ratio (shape) as this:

This is one I made that is 1 3/8 x 8 inch.

This also looks the same as one on the ICI display board posted by exat808, post #6, second row from the bottom, third from left. Note there are others that are longer. Are diameters the same? I wonder if some of these are over 8 inch long? Maybe he can tell us which are 808 or PE.

I wonder if there were 1 1/4 inch diameter cartridges at that time? Main question here is about diameter.

 

[sgdbdr]

From "Royal Engineer's Demolitions Handbook"



Cheers,

S.

 

[Anders]

When you look at the photo from Anders, post #48, which I assume is a genuine cartridge of PE2 from the period (if not please say so), it is about the same aspect ratio (shape) as this:

It is original.

 

[WWIIBuff]

I'm bringing this thread up again to add a few reference pictures, since there seems to be a couple discrepancies between measurements mentioned so far. Attached are pictures of original Nobel's No. 808. wrappers showing the measurements from crease to crease. This gives us an idea of the actual length of each stick. I have five of the 808. wrappers, and based on the crease measurements, they would have all been about 9cm, or 3 5/8" inches long.

Unfortunately I cannot determine the original diameter of each stick using the wrappers, so I am going to assume they were 1 1/4" inch in diameter, based on the Royal Engineers Demolition Chart uploaded by sgdbdr in post #64.

 

[WWIIBuff]

Here are reference pictures for a stick of P.E. No.2 showing the length based on a measurement from crease to crease. This is the only wrapper I have for P.E. No.2, but based on this, the length of the stick would have been 8" inches. Again for the diameter I would need to refer to the chart in post #64, which states that a stick of P.E. No.2 had the same diameter as the sticks of Nobel's No. 808., which is 1 1/4" inches.

 

[TimG]

Ammunition Bulletins give the diameter of a 4-oz cartridge of Nobels 808 as 1 3/8 inches.

Using the value of 1.5 g/cc as the density of PE 2, an 8-oz, 8" cartridge will have a diameter of just over 1.2" which would be a nominal 1.25 inches.

TimG

 

[MINENAZ16]

I have two guenuine PE2 papers.
I made an inert petard with the best paper, but too quickly and the result is a diameter of 3.5cm (pic1).
On the picture 2 we can see the old mark of the original folding, so 3.5cm diam is too wide (pic2).
The former outer folds show that the length was approximatly 20cm.
So official dimensions 8inx1.25in match.
I also made measurments of the second paper (in bad condition) (pic3)

 

[WWIIBuff]

Displays completed using the dimensions above. All inert. Original WWII paper on the outside, wood dowels on the inside.