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Italian 20x138B
- Thread starter smle2009
- Start date
H
Hoeksel
Guest
hicky1300
Well-Known Member
Cheers Hoeksel & good to see you again today.
Paint on this projectile in better condition then the ones I have or that i sold to SMLE.
Hoeksel did have the point that the paint id may not be tying in with known ones for Italian 2cm projectiles as he thinks this projectile, whilst being made by BPD, could have been for another country to use & therefore have been painted in that countries colours/codes??
Paint on this projectile in better condition then the ones I have or that i sold to SMLE.
Hoeksel did have the point that the paint id may not be tying in with known ones for Italian 2cm projectiles as he thinks this projectile, whilst being made by BPD, could have been for another country to use & therefore have been painted in that countries colours/codes??
H
Hoeksel
Guest
I have reasons to believe this one came from Finland.
H
Hoeksel
Guest
Hehe....you mean corrosion like on Italian cars in general? Sorry....had to reply this way ;-)
smle2009
Well-Known Member
:bigsmile:..good one...seriously after looking at a photo of the projectile before I stripped it the one I have had grey paint overall with a red band and a buff/yellow band,you can see the grey paint all the length of it on the left side,also a photo of the corrosion caused by the buff/yellow band
Tony
Tony
Not to nitpick but for the records it is Rheinmetall.
"Tropen" cartridges have a red band (thinner and darker than red tracer markings) above the driving band and the tracer color is moving up to the tip at AP and to below the fuze of HE cartridges. So the red tip means nothing but red tracer. (and sowith might be also white, yellow or green).
smle2009
Well-Known Member
Hi EOD,
Thanks for the info,I am aware these rounds are Rhinemetall but for some reason seem to be better known as Solothurn amongst the collecting community,hence my putting the term in brackets,so put it as for ease of id.
It is also my understanding,and discribed in the manual that I have,that the thin red band above the drive band indicates a tropical round but another member says it is not,if you would not mind could you have a look at the photo of the one I have and give a yay or nay please as I am sure it is, also there would be no reason for a red band in this position on a AP round for a tracer marking as AP were marked at the tip,the band is 2mm in width.
Many thanks and all the best
Tony
Thanks for the info,I am aware these rounds are Rhinemetall but for some reason seem to be better known as Solothurn amongst the collecting community,hence my putting the term in brackets,so put it as for ease of id.
It is also my understanding,and discribed in the manual that I have,that the thin red band above the drive band indicates a tropical round but another member says it is not,if you would not mind could you have a look at the photo of the one I have and give a yay or nay please as I am sure it is, also there would be no reason for a red band in this position on a AP round for a tracer marking as AP were marked at the tip,the band is 2mm in width.
Many thanks and all the best
Tony
jiipee76
Well-Known Member
Solothurn was subsidiary company of Rheinmetall.Solothurn were used by Rheinmetall to design new items becouse Paris/Versailles peace treaty prohibited that directly from german companies.It was SOLOTHURN who designed 20x105B and its bigger "sister" 20x138B with help from Rheinmetall.
I believe they are called "short solothurn" and "long solothurn" around the world,am i right?
Last edited:
Hi
here some pics about Italian 20x138b round:
the color code is basically the same, but factories apllied it in different way....
grey body color could be find in different shade, from grey to blu-grey, see pic 3
pic1:
HETSD navy, german supplies of shell (W) and fuze with italian navy code, 1944 production
2x HETSD navy, standard type
HETSD navy, boat tailed
HETSD navy, 1st type
HEIT navy
pic2:
HETSD mod 41 (boat taild)
HETSD mod 35 (red paint is missed...I don't know why)
HET mod 35 (white stripe instead of blue)
APHET mod 35
APHET navy with long tracer ( I don't know why the red tip, navy code for long tracer is green band. italian either used long and short tracer for war ammo)
APHET navy, standard type
pic 3:
2x HETSD mod 35
1x blank
best regards
here some pics about Italian 20x138b round:
the color code is basically the same, but factories apllied it in different way....
grey body color could be find in different shade, from grey to blu-grey, see pic 3
pic1:
HETSD navy, german supplies of shell (W) and fuze with italian navy code, 1944 production
2x HETSD navy, standard type
HETSD navy, boat tailed
HETSD navy, 1st type
HEIT navy
pic2:
HETSD mod 41 (boat taild)
HETSD mod 35 (red paint is missed...I don't know why)
HET mod 35 (white stripe instead of blue)
APHET mod 35
APHET navy with long tracer ( I don't know why the red tip, navy code for long tracer is green band. italian either used long and short tracer for war ammo)
APHET navy, standard type
pic 3:
2x HETSD mod 35
1x blank
best regards
Attachments
Sorry, no! What they are called around the world does not make it correct in any way.
Solothurn was founded in the second half of 1929. As we all know the first model of the 20x138B weapon was the MG C/30 and Flak 30. The development of the Rheinmetall weapons goes back to at least 1928 (and maybe even earlier).
Solothurn only developed the AT rifles, nothing else.
Also we shall not forget that Solothurn was marketing Rheinmetall made weapons (for the reason you gave above). Namely the well known and undisputed 37mm Pak and the 81mm mortar made by Rheinmetall are advertised as Solothurn weapons. Nobody so far ever claimed these to be Soloturn developments or products.
The Solothurn designation originates merely from post war publications written by people who lacked this information.
There are many examples for such errors in ammunition history where information was hard to find or people just liked to use the name of a well known weapon instead a correct designation.
For this reason I never get tired to tell correct designations since in particular we as people with at least some little knowledge have to stick with correct designations. Bending backwards and using incorrect names to please ignorant people who want to keep their old and wrong knowledge can't be our aim.
Last but not least, the Italian M35 Breda is also a Rheinmetall development which got licenced to Italy.
A good friend of mine is currently writing a book on these weapons and the cartridge. I hope it will be out in the next few years. Plenty of facts and info then to be recognized.