Yesterday's finds

[AMMOTECHXT]

Evening all, yesterday I spent several hours on one of creation's best beaches. The 2Pr no 281 tracer igniter unit is dated pre WW2. There were bits of No 1, No 2 and No 13 plugs, as amended by EOD operations. There were bits of driving bands, mostly 25 Pr but in the 5th photo there is a different grip, perhaps American? Most of the SAA was .303 tracer and ball but there were also shorter ball bullets than .303 and more streamlined bullets than .303 (photo 8). Can anyone say what these are? The really intriguing bits for me are the circular items in photos 9 & 10 (roughly one inch / 25 mm in diameter). The remains of the fuzes appeared to be the No 119, rather than the 117. The small fuzes are No 250 for 20 mm Hispano Suiza. Most were No 250 Mk 2 but one was No 250 Mk 1. Anyone know the differernce between the two Marks?

 

[TimG]

Ammotechxt,

Obvious typo - what's the third digit of the 20mm fuzes?

TimG

 

[pzgr40]

I think they are practice 40mm nose fuzes

 

[justin]

That is a great haul for a few hours work!
I would suggest that the .303s in photo 8 are, on the left US manufactured .303s from WW2 (characteristic higher cannelure and shorter overall length than standard mark VII) and on the right, mark VIII .303s.
One of these, the grey looking bullet, stands out as being somewhat shorter - initially I thought it was a 7.62 but the boat tail looks a little too long to be 7.62.

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

Thanks to you all for your replies. I was very fortunate to find so much, normally I find a lot less, if any. Tim, I'm not sure I understand your meaning, they are No 250 Fuzes. I will add some more close-up shots. pzgr40, thanks for your observation. I have not seen any blinds where these fuzes are fitted. Remains of the smallest shell that I have seen are in keeping with 40 mm but some are definitely 2 Pr (although those were solid shot, therefore not fuzed). I presume the UK had 40 mm in 1940/41? Justin, that makes sense. I wonder if the grey bullet is simply missing its jacket, like one of the three 9 mm bullets. The oldest dated thing I have found on that beach was a 1917 .303 case. I also have a No 1 plug dated 1931. The newest date is 1943, again for a .303 case. I believe the beach was out of use as a training area before the advent of 7.62 mm. I don't think it was that beach but I remember as a very young boy in the 1960s going to a beach where there was a wall of scaffolding on the sea-ward side of the dunes. That might have been Brancaster. North Norfolk was still being de-mined into the mid 1960s. The shifting nature of the sands means that such things as in my posts will still be found for decades to come. That said, the coast is being eroded and if sea levels continue to rise, what I find will one day all be under water all of the time.

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

The piece of driving band that is unusual to me is the middle of the three above in photo 1. To the left is the standard double wavy line that is typical of 25 Pr seen on the right. As for the No 250 Fuze I believe the Mk 1 had a flimsy centre cover in the nose, whereas the Mk 2 did not. I remember something similar with another type of fuze, where the flimsy nose shield was no guarantee against premature detonation in flight when the fuze and its shell passed through rain. Most that I have were made by B Ltd (same as many of the No 221 fuzes that I have). The Mk 1s that I have are mostly dated 1940 and Mk 2s are all dated 1941. Some are damaged and cannot be fully read.

 

[TimG]

B Ltd. - Bryce Ltd, London Road, Hackbridge, Surrey. They manufactured all manner of fuzes, from WWII through to the 50s and maybe beyond. Although listed as an electrical manufacturer, they appear to have been a major fuze supplier.

TimG

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

I think I now know what the row of small items above the bullets are from - they are the bases of 40 mm Bofors shell. The two white metal pieces screw together and the brass part screws into the lowest part of the white metal, with the thinner part of the brass protruding. I borrowed the photo from a forthcoming sale notice.

 

[pzgr40/42]

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Evening all, yesterday I spent several hours on one of creation's best beaches. The 2Pr no 281 tracer igniter unit is dated pre WW2. There were bits of No 1, No 2 and No 13 plugs, as amended by EOD operations. There were bits of driving bands, mostly 25 Pr but in the 5th photo there is a different grip, perhaps American? Most of the SAA was .303 tracer and ball but there were also shorter ball bullets than .303 and more streamlined bullets than .303 (photo 8). Can anyone say what these are? The really intriguing bits for me are the circular items in photos 9 & 10 (roughly one inch / 25 mm in diameter). The remains of the fuzes appeared to be the No 119, rather than the 117. The small fuzes are No 250 for 20 mm Hispano Suiza. Most were No 250 Mk 2 but one was No 250 Mk 1. Anyone know the differernce between the two Marks?

The streamlined bullets ... perhaps 8mm French or 7,92 ( BESA)?

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

Yes, I wondered whether some might be BESA. Correct me if I'm wrong but did some British AFVs have BESA machine guns? With steel links in belts?

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi, I think you will find that the streamline 303 bullets are in fact MkVIII ball.
Cheers Andy