For you to Pete just let me know where to send it to guys work or home PM me about it.
:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
British Ordnance Collectors Network
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Sea recovered ordnance
- Thread starter peteblight
- Start date
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Dumping Ordnance at Sea;
Although no longer legal, dumping live ordnance at sea has been done for many years following WWI & WWII, especially in the Pacific and offshore in the U.S. It was a convienient method of disposal for large quantities of HE and gas filled ordnance.
Numerous Mustard Gas (HD) bombs and projectiles were dumped off Okinawa and later had to be dealth with.
With regard to hazard - most definitely.
I was a team member of the last field recovery and decontamination and disposal of live HD filled 110 pound bombs at Crane Indiana in 1981 and full protective clothing was used to protect personell.
There is no reason NOT to believe that HD (liquid) ordnance from past wars are dangerous. If in doubt place in a container with HTH and turn it over to EOD.
Best Regards,
John aka Bart
Although no longer legal, dumping live ordnance at sea has been done for many years following WWI & WWII, especially in the Pacific and offshore in the U.S. It was a convienient method of disposal for large quantities of HE and gas filled ordnance.
Numerous Mustard Gas (HD) bombs and projectiles were dumped off Okinawa and later had to be dealth with.
With regard to hazard - most definitely.
I was a team member of the last field recovery and decontamination and disposal of live HD filled 110 pound bombs at Crane Indiana in 1981 and full protective clothing was used to protect personell.
There is no reason NOT to believe that HD (liquid) ordnance from past wars are dangerous. If in doubt place in a container with HTH and turn it over to EOD.
Best Regards,
John aka Bart
John,
word of caution - not HTH (dry powder). if you get a leak, mustard is hypergolic with dry HTH, makes a real nice fire and then the mustard burns too - its flammable. Best to either just use a straight bleach solution or leave it in the ground and call someone. The guys in Dover had a good accident a few years back by a mis-identification - ok, they were Airforce and should have stuck to seats and such, but the truth is, there's a lot of little details with CW that we tend to forget if we aren't playing with it every day, it won't hesitate to bite if we forget for a second.
I was at Harrison (64th) when you were at Crane - seems like yesterday doesn't it?
word of caution - not HTH (dry powder). if you get a leak, mustard is hypergolic with dry HTH, makes a real nice fire and then the mustard burns too - its flammable. Best to either just use a straight bleach solution or leave it in the ground and call someone. The guys in Dover had a good accident a few years back by a mis-identification - ok, they were Airforce and should have stuck to seats and such, but the truth is, there's a lot of little details with CW that we tend to forget if we aren't playing with it every day, it won't hesitate to bite if we forget for a second.
I was at Harrison (64th) when you were at Crane - seems like yesterday doesn't it?
Attachments
:tinysmile_fatgrin_t Great pics, do you have any more?
Pete
Pete
No, thats all that i could find.
satan18
Well-Known Member
There were some SMLE Rifles recovered from a ship up for sale some years back.
They were about three times there original size due to crustation,and once
chipped of most of them started to dissolve by all accounts
oh:Best Satan
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Chemical Filled Ordnance;
Unfortunately after we survived the great war, the different governments just wanted the hazard to disappear and dumping at sea was the easiest way to rid ourselves of the stuff. Environmental considerations were not developed until much later, after it was too late.
With regard to the most common chemical (gas) filled munitions, Mustard Gas (HD) will blister the skin,damage eyes and lungs and can kill. It can be neutralized with HTH (pool clorine) but you have to be able to safely remove it first. A task that should be left up to trained and protected EOD technicians. It is most definitely not a garage operation.
Regards,
John aka Bart
Unfortunately after we survived the great war, the different governments just wanted the hazard to disappear and dumping at sea was the easiest way to rid ourselves of the stuff. Environmental considerations were not developed until much later, after it was too late.
With regard to the most common chemical (gas) filled munitions, Mustard Gas (HD) will blister the skin,damage eyes and lungs and can kill. It can be neutralized with HTH (pool clorine) but you have to be able to safely remove it first. A task that should be left up to trained and protected EOD technicians. It is most definitely not a garage operation.
Regards,
John aka Bart
Seascale Removal
Regarding these munitions covered in seascale, the way we used to remove it was with a couple of lengths of det cord. This was enough to shatter the seascale, but didn't cause the baseplates to come off.
BUT, unless you know the type of ammunition and it's fill then this could be a very risky way of removing it!!! :xd:
Regarding these munitions covered in seascale, the way we used to remove it was with a couple of lengths of det cord. This was enough to shatter the seascale, but didn't cause the baseplates to come off.
BUT, unless you know the type of ammunition and it's fill then this could be a very risky way of removing it!!! :xd:
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
HD Filled ordnance;
To All,
When I mentioned using HTH to neutralize HD I was not intending to give a lecture on "how to" do it. As another member has mentioned DON'T USE DRY HTH, It must be mixed with water. I won't even give you mix percentagesbecause you should not be attempting the RSP of chemical filled ordnance.
Best Regareds,
John aka Bart
To All,
When I mentioned using HTH to neutralize HD I was not intending to give a lecture on "how to" do it. As another member has mentioned DON'T USE DRY HTH, It must be mixed with water. I won't even give you mix percentagesbecause you should not be attempting the RSP of chemical filled ordnance.
Best Regareds,
John aka Bart
I had to read this a few times until I realised it was in reference to the scale caused by the sea. The munitions being dumped in the sea in the pics that I posted have been washing up on the West Cumbrian coast, which has a small village called Seascale
Here a nice bit on sea dumping on Youtube
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW76ha24QhA"]YouTube- Chemical Weapon Munitions Dumped at Sea[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW76ha24QhA"]YouTube- Chemical Weapon Munitions Dumped at Sea[/ame]
The first photo appears to be M79 bombs, 1000lb filled with either phosgene or cyanogen chloride (CG or CK). The second however looks like a Brit 25pr, and it is interesting that it appears to have been fired - though its hard to be certain with the low resolution.
Jack do you have the photo numbers from AWM, I've missed those two and will order them so that I can get in higher res..
Jack do you have the photo numbers from AWM, I've missed those two and will order them so that I can get in higher res..
Hi Jeff,
The first one is from this site www.earthmagazine.org/earth/article/1c0-7d9-1-1b
And the other one is AWM 028467 if iam correct, and its fired that 25 pr
The first one is from this site www.earthmagazine.org/earth/article/1c0-7d9-1-1b
And the other one is AWM 028467 if iam correct, and its fired that 25 pr
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Ordnance from the sea
Hallo,
I recall that some munitions were found in the Irish Sea just North of Dublin some 20 years ago. These were phosphorus and were pipe-shaped, being about 50 - 60 cm long and about 12cm diameter, as best I can recall from newspaper articles of that time. Some were recovered in nets by fishermen and others by scuba divers in an inflatable. The divers had a close call as the phosphorus dried out enough to ignite while lying in the bottom of the inflatable! I wonder what these were from?
Hallo,
I recall that some munitions were found in the Irish Sea just North of Dublin some 20 years ago. These were phosphorus and were pipe-shaped, being about 50 - 60 cm long and about 12cm diameter, as best I can recall from newspaper articles of that time. Some were recovered in nets by fishermen and others by scuba divers in an inflatable. The divers had a close call as the phosphorus dried out enough to ignite while lying in the bottom of the inflatable! I wonder what these were from?
Any photos available?
Without a photo it is hard to say. Coastal dumping of ordnance has been going on in large scale since the first World War, and WP is a pretty common fill for projectiles, mortars, bombs, rockets - even the odd landmine or two. It is also not unheard of to find bulk WP in different sizes and types of containers. To further complicate matters foreign items were brought home for testing and evaluation, when testing was complete...
Without a photo it is hard to say. Coastal dumping of ordnance has been going on in large scale since the first World War, and WP is a pretty common fill for projectiles, mortars, bombs, rockets - even the odd landmine or two. It is also not unheard of to find bulk WP in different sizes and types of containers. To further complicate matters foreign items were brought home for testing and evaluation, when testing was complete...
With those dimensions i think it a Inc 30 Lb.