J
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Old fuze
- Thread starter SG500
- Start date
Hi the base of it is soldered in place and cannot be opened, please see attached photo.
Dave.
Tim, yes the threaded section is slightly tapered some dimensions below.
Dave.
Overall fuze length 46.67mm
Width of fuze at widest point 34.30mm
Threaded section length 21.46mm
Threaded section at widest point 30.62mm
Threaded section at narrow point 28.95mm (Measured a few turns up from the bottom edge of the thread which is slightly more narrow anyway)
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Dave,
so you don't think the Sensitive Percussion Fuze is yours then?
At first I was persuaded that your fuze was a powder train time fuse because what I thought was a gas vent hole was actually the safety pin hole. A rush to judgement that was my fault. Sorry for leading everyone down a primrose path.
That is not a bottom view in my last drawing but a section of the fuze where the safety pin is located.
It looks like your primer has been removed and functioned. You would have to unsolder the base in order to see the firing pin housing. Don't think I would ruin it.
Regards,
John
so you don't think the Sensitive Percussion Fuze is yours then?
At first I was persuaded that your fuze was a powder train time fuse because what I thought was a gas vent hole was actually the safety pin hole. A rush to judgement that was my fault. Sorry for leading everyone down a primrose path.
That is not a bottom view in my last drawing but a section of the fuze where the safety pin is located.
It looks like your primer has been removed and functioned. You would have to unsolder the base in order to see the firing pin housing. Don't think I would ruin it.
Regards,
John
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Bellifortis
Well-Known Member
John's 2. drawing looks very much like your actual specimen. The horizontal channel in the top-side part of the fuzebody holds a bar to which the safetypin is fastened during storage and transport, to be removed before firing. I had thought before, that this could be a normal percussion fuze. But, in this case, the firing needle, with its holder, has to be movable upon impact. The capholder-screw is recessed, an unusual thing, so this is protected on impact. One option is, to attach the plunger with its needle, with arms to the case, that get fractured upon a certain impact force and the plunger flies forward and the needle impacts the cap. To ascertain the type of construction one would have to look inside the fuze.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Extract from Treatise:
"Sensitive Fuze, Mark. I.
A sensitive fuze has been approved for use with 7-pr. R.M.L. guns, and8" and 6"•3 R.M.L. howitzers. In general principle it resembles-thePrussian percussion fuze.
The Superintendent R.L.states the trials of the E.L. percussion fuze, Mark IL, hare been verysatisfactory, that there appears to be no liability to premature-explosions,that the fuze acts with at least as much certainty as any other percussion fuzeyet tried under similar conditions, and that the rapidity of action is better than any yettried.—Extracts, VoL XI, p. 134.
Experiments have been carried out to ascertainwhether this fuze would set when, used in connection with thelowest charge fired from the 8-inch R.M.L. howitzer, it failed to act whenfired with 5 lb. or 6 lb. charges at an elevation of 10, but acted withcharges of 71be. and over. The initial velocity is probably too slow to causetin-" guard " to set back when the small charges are used.
A trial at Shoeburynees (January, 1874) showedthat the R.L. Mark II. fuze acted with the 7-inch B. L. gun ; 25 were fired, 23burst first graze, and two burst second graze. It is obviously necessary totake out the safety pin before placing the shell in the bore when using theR.L. fuzes with B.L. guns.
The lowest charges which make the R.L. faze MarkII. act in the 40-pr. and 64-pr. R.M.L. guns are 2f lbs. and 3* lbs.respectively.
t For Ammeter's proof, see p. 306.
57
It isdesigned so as to be equally efficient with very low charges and with thehighest charges used with the above pieces.
The fuze consists of (a) body ; (b) hammer or pellet ; (c) steel needle; Construct iori_ (d) thimble ; (e) detonating cap ; (f) safety pin ; (g) outside primer of
quickmatch, and (h) band. The body, hammer and cap are made of gun-metal, andso is the bottom plug which has a fire-hole closed with a thin brass disc spunover.
Thehammer tapers slightly from top to bottom toallow it to move freely forward on impact of the shell. A thin steel plate, thecentre portion of which'forms the needle, is fitted as shown in the cut, into aslot in the top of the hammer, and a hole bored through the centre of thelatter allows the flash from the detonator to pass on both sides of the steelplate and down into the shell.
Thethimble is a thin brass cylinder, flanged atthe bottom, and encloses the hammer. It allows the latter to move freelyforward, and, goingwith it, prevents the hammer frombeing impeded by dirt, &c., which might otherwise enter through the safetypin hole on graze or impact on earth, &c.
Thedetonating cap isscrewed into the head of the fuze and secured by a small side "stopscrew." It contains about 71 grains of pressed mealed powder covered with a perforatedcopper disc. Below this is pressed 3+ grains of cap composition, which iscovered with varnished fine white paper and a thin brass disc ; the latter hasa hole -1" in diameter in the centre to allow the needle to pass throughto fire the composition.
The use of the meal powder is toensure the production of a sufficient quantity of flame to communicate with thebursting charge.
Thesafety pin is of brass wire (No. 15 B.W.G.)screwed to a heavy head of gun-metal, as shown in the cut. It is secured by astrand of six-thread quickmatch, fastened by silk thread and coated with mealpowder priming. The whole is covered with a tape and copper band, like thatused with wooden time fuzes for R.M.L.O. The safety pin fits easily through onewall of the body and into a recess in the opposite wall. •
The fuze is " uncapped " byremoving the tape and copper band. preparation,
This is not to be done till the shellhas been placed in the bore.
The flash of discharge burns up thequickmatch.' The safety pin,
Action.
now free to move, is whirled out bythe centrifugal force due to the rotation of the shell. On impact or graze thehammer and thimble fly forward and the needle point enters the cap. The flash passes down
the pellet, blows out the thin brassdisc which closes the base of the bottom plug, and so fires the shell.
Five fuzes in a tin cylinder. Sixcylinders in a deal box. Issue.
* Gun-cotton loosely twisted will very possibly beshortly sub"
Regards,
John
"Sensitive Fuze, Mark. I.
A sensitive fuze has been approved for use with 7-pr. R.M.L. guns, and8" and 6"•3 R.M.L. howitzers. In general principle it resembles-thePrussian percussion fuze.
The Superintendent R.L.states the trials of the E.L. percussion fuze, Mark IL, hare been verysatisfactory, that there appears to be no liability to premature-explosions,that the fuze acts with at least as much certainty as any other percussion fuzeyet tried under similar conditions, and that the rapidity of action is better than any yettried.—Extracts, VoL XI, p. 134.
Experiments have been carried out to ascertainwhether this fuze would set when, used in connection with thelowest charge fired from the 8-inch R.M.L. howitzer, it failed to act whenfired with 5 lb. or 6 lb. charges at an elevation of 10, but acted withcharges of 71be. and over. The initial velocity is probably too slow to causetin-" guard " to set back when the small charges are used.
A trial at Shoeburynees (January, 1874) showedthat the R.L. Mark II. fuze acted with the 7-inch B. L. gun ; 25 were fired, 23burst first graze, and two burst second graze. It is obviously necessary totake out the safety pin before placing the shell in the bore when using theR.L. fuzes with B.L. guns.
The lowest charges which make the R.L. faze MarkII. act in the 40-pr. and 64-pr. R.M.L. guns are 2f lbs. and 3* lbs.respectively.
t For Ammeter's proof, see p. 306.
57
It isdesigned so as to be equally efficient with very low charges and with thehighest charges used with the above pieces.
The fuze consists of (a) body ; (b) hammer or pellet ; (c) steel needle; Construct iori_ (d) thimble ; (e) detonating cap ; (f) safety pin ; (g) outside primer of
quickmatch, and (h) band. The body, hammer and cap are made of gun-metal, andso is the bottom plug which has a fire-hole closed with a thin brass disc spunover.
Thehammer tapers slightly from top to bottom toallow it to move freely forward on impact of the shell. A thin steel plate, thecentre portion of which'forms the needle, is fitted as shown in the cut, into aslot in the top of the hammer, and a hole bored through the centre of thelatter allows the flash from the detonator to pass on both sides of the steelplate and down into the shell.
Thethimble is a thin brass cylinder, flanged atthe bottom, and encloses the hammer. It allows the latter to move freelyforward, and, goingwith it, prevents the hammer frombeing impeded by dirt, &c., which might otherwise enter through the safetypin hole on graze or impact on earth, &c.
Thedetonating cap isscrewed into the head of the fuze and secured by a small side "stopscrew." It contains about 71 grains of pressed mealed powder covered with a perforatedcopper disc. Below this is pressed 3+ grains of cap composition, which iscovered with varnished fine white paper and a thin brass disc ; the latter hasa hole -1" in diameter in the centre to allow the needle to pass throughto fire the composition.
The use of the meal powder is toensure the production of a sufficient quantity of flame to communicate with thebursting charge.
Thesafety pin is of brass wire (No. 15 B.W.G.)screwed to a heavy head of gun-metal, as shown in the cut. It is secured by astrand of six-thread quickmatch, fastened by silk thread and coated with mealpowder priming. The whole is covered with a tape and copper band, like thatused with wooden time fuzes for R.M.L.O. The safety pin fits easily through onewall of the body and into a recess in the opposite wall. •
The fuze is " uncapped " byremoving the tape and copper band. preparation,
This is not to be done till the shellhas been placed in the bore.
The flash of discharge burns up thequickmatch.' The safety pin,
Action.
now free to move, is whirled out bythe centrifugal force due to the rotation of the shell. On impact or graze thehammer and thimble fly forward and the needle point enters the cap. The flash passes down
the pellet, blows out the thin brassdisc which closes the base of the bottom plug, and so fires the shell.
Five fuzes in a tin cylinder. Sixcylinders in a deal box. Issue.
* Gun-cotton loosely twisted will very possibly beshortly sub"
Regards,
John
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Yes I think it probably is, thanks.
Dave.
Thanks for all the information on this guys, it just shows what a great place BOCN is. Only yesterday I had an old fuze that I didn't have a clue about. Now with all the knowledge on the forum all has been made clear, a great result. Attached some more info (with thanks to Spotter for sending me the info). :tinysmile_grin_t:.
Dave.
Dave.
Attachments
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Bellifortis
Well-Known Member
Hallo Dave,
would it be possible to get a copy (paper or digital) of that interesting old treatise the above 2 pages are extracted from ? Reading through John's and yours quoted postings, I find this a very unusual construction for that advanced time (1870). The safety pin is held in position by prime covered quickmatch, so for the safety pin to be thrown off, the primed quickmatch has to recieve a strong wash of fire from the propellant. This can happen only with very bad obturation, like in the much older sperical muzzle loading balls. As John's quote of the experiments at the time tell, this did not work with most breach loading projectiles. I do not know of any other fuze where the fire-wash of the propellant is used to free the safety pin.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
would it be possible to get a copy (paper or digital) of that interesting old treatise the above 2 pages are extracted from ? Reading through John's and yours quoted postings, I find this a very unusual construction for that advanced time (1870). The safety pin is held in position by prime covered quickmatch, so for the safety pin to be thrown off, the primed quickmatch has to recieve a strong wash of fire from the propellant. This can happen only with very bad obturation, like in the much older sperical muzzle loading balls. As John's quote of the experiments at the time tell, this did not work with most breach loading projectiles. I do not know of any other fuze where the fire-wash of the propellant is used to free the safety pin.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
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Hi if you go on this link its on pages 56 and 57.
Dave.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/59117289/Treatise-on-Ammunition-1877
also available to download here http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/downloads.php?do=file&id=14
Bellifortis
Well-Known Member
Hallo Spotter,
thank you for providing that beautiful old book with all the different models of british wooden fus(z)es. In quite a few months browsing through the pages of BOCN I think I have only seen 1 sample of such a wooden fuse in "Members Gallery". Is there no interest of british collectors in such old items or whats the reason for seeing so little of them ? The british empire was very large, so even wooden items should have been saved somewhere.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
Hi Bellifortis, it could be because they're really rare and hard to find. I know of only a very limited number in peoples collections.
Dave.