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My Naval 16"/50 handling cart.
- Thread starter 917601
- Start date
That photo is one that I found on the internet. I'm guessing it was taken at Yuma Proving Ground. They do lot acceptance testing and long term storage testing for the ammunition. They have a ground mounted 16 inch rifle there. By the way the projos are standing adjacent to each other it looks like a sympathetic detonation test. They would detonate the submunition projo to see if it will detonate the other two.
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I don't recall seeing a photo that shows which fuze is under the fuze cap of 917601's projectile. As Hazord indicated yesterday, the fuze adapter for the submunition projectile is different from that of the high explosive projectile. The main difference is that the submunition adapter is threaded for a 2"-12 tpi fuze and the HE adapter is threaded for a 1.700"-14 tpi fuze. Perhaps 917601 can show or tell us what's underneath his fuze cap/protector.
What I have, ( the previous owner said the thought fuze was not correct). The adapter is aluminum ( a reproduction I assumed) and the fuze that threads into the adapter is 2 and 5/16th inch OD. The fuze that screws into the adapter is marked , Fuze, MK 71, Mod 15. On to the base - threading is only 1/2" deep threading. No evidence of any shear pins ( internet examples) that would hold the absent base plate. I pulled a few internet diagrams up and noticed the flat spot and channeling as in my example, definitely designed for a " pusher plate", but no shear pins, only 2 channels and 4 threads 1/2 " deep. Any ideas as to the MK number? If identified exactly, I would consider doing a repaint ( with the correct Fed Standard colors) no small job. My thanks for your continued replies.
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Bingo, I spent time running numbers. I believe to have identified this positively. NSN 1320-01-328-1954, D875, Mk 146, Mod 2. The Number " 53711" on the driving band is the cage code. Internet search pulls up a 16"", D875 Mod 2, threaded base, payload 666 M46 grenades. See supporting evidence, now I need a picture of the color scheme, lettering.... a few M46 grenades, and an M724 fuze....many thanks for discovering it is not an ordinary HE, but an ICM ( never thought twice about the interior channeling).
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917601 had posted photos of the fuze in this tread:http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/98559-What-is-the-going-rate-16-quot-50-1700-lb-projo
These photos, in which the fuze looks like a proximity version.
The first submunition projectiles were reworked HE projectiles. Those used a fuze adaptor ring that would screw into your existing aluminum adaptor, and accept a 2 inch 12TPI Army fuze. You just need to get one of those or make one.
These photos, in which the fuze looks like a proximity version.
The first submunition projectiles were reworked HE projectiles. Those used a fuze adaptor ring that would screw into your existing aluminum adaptor, and accept a 2 inch 12TPI Army fuze. You just need to get one of those or make one.
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I have located some M46 sub munitions and plan to fill the open base with them for display. Question I have is how were they stacked inside? Ribbon aft, or base aft? I can find little information on the stacking. It is a 16"/50 ICM Mark 146 Mod 2. See pics. Any detailed information appreciated.
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The ribbons go toward the bottom, and you need some hollow pipe/tube pieces to protect the bottom grenade ribbons. There is a size of pipe/tube that you can buy that has the same outer diameter as the grenades.
I have attached photos of D J Harms (Pzgr 40) excellent and extremely labor intensive sectioned 155mm and 8 inch rounds which might be shown here on BOCN, but are also shown on the WK2 Ammo site. The bottom section shows the hollow spacers. The bottom view shows how the spacers and keys are located, but the outer spacers need to match the inside diameter curvature of the specific projectile, 105mm, 155mm, 8 inch or 16 inch.
I have attached photos of D J Harms (Pzgr 40) excellent and extremely labor intensive sectioned 155mm and 8 inch rounds which might be shown here on BOCN, but are also shown on the WK2 Ammo site. The bottom section shows the hollow spacers. The bottom view shows how the spacers and keys are located, but the outer spacers need to match the inside diameter curvature of the specific projectile, 105mm, 155mm, 8 inch or 16 inch.
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To make some spacers from scratch, I would measure the inside diameter of the projectile body and then get onto a CAD system, using circles the diameter of the grenades, locate them in the big circle of the ID to figure out the configuration of one layer of grenades. Once you do that, you have a choice of using a 3D printer to make spacers, or get a thick sheet of milky white plastic, and mill the holes for the grenades into it. Then just use a band saw to cut the triangle shaped (or whatever geometry) pieces into spacers. 3D printing is slow and expensive, whereas the milling would be fairly fast and cheaper. When you model the grenade diameters add 0.010 or so for tolerance or make the milled holes a touch larger. If you dimension the centers in X and Y of each circle, a manual mill with digital readouts in X and Y would work great.
Your memory is fading John. You took that picture during a visit at my place years back. That was a storage compatibility test, but done at White Sands Missile Range in about 1986 when they had brought the Battleships back on line and we were using them against folks in the Middle East. We did two shots, one of an ICM projo between two HE rounds, and one between two ICM rounds. Both were done on ship decking plate. No secondary detonations, but one of the HE rounds cracked around the circumference.
An interesting side note, the round held 666 M42/M46 submunitions, at 30.5 grams of Comp A per. This comes to just under 45lbs of HE. The Test engineers wanted to set up an observation point at 450 yards, and we had to argue them out of it, explaining that heavy cased munitions do not always observe the normal frag safety distances. They grumbled, but we pushed them out to 6000 feet. When the round detonated we immediately realized that 6000 feet was woefully short. Fortunately nothing was hit, but we later found fragments (10-20lbs) out to 7300 feet. I have the baseplate and numerous fragments from that round still in the collection. That is me in the photo.
I've got more pictures from the test, if I can find time this weekend I'll dig some out.
Thank God you finally woke up. We have been working on this post since August 6th. Who would have recognized you with those birth control glasses on anyway. You must have sent me that photo. Did you have it on a wall in Holland, because I haven't ever been to any of your U.S. residences? I do remember you telling me about that test and you being in the helicopter watching it, or a similar test. Maybe Rick sent it to me.
So, what is the deal with ICM 16 inch Projo paintjobs? The one you posted that is sectioned has a caliber of yellow paint on the ogive, and the one in your photo doesn't. Are both right, or is the one in your photo the current scheme?
So, what is the deal with ICM 16 inch Projo paintjobs? The one you posted that is sectioned has a caliber of yellow paint on the ogive, and the one in your photo doesn't. Are both right, or is the one in your photo the current scheme?
I've been awake, just not a lot of free time due to work. I was in Rock Island last week, Anniston AL the week before that - next month I'm down to Glynco, GA for a couple of weeks. Doesn't leave a lot of time for toys and posting, though I'm trying. The projos in the picture were as delivered to us at WSMR. The cutaway was in the storage area at the Picatinny museum. Picatinny had a lot of repaints, many may have been marked per a pub somewhere, but I'd go with the field pieces that were explosively loaded. Saw the same thing on CW in the bunkers, very different markings on the loaded items vs the pubs and display items.
And by the way, those were Bolle sunglasses, considered very stylish at the time.
And by the way, those were Bolle sunglasses, considered very stylish at the time.
You are spot on, I located an HE adapter ( it is threaded 1.7") and my M565 is 2". To make it fit, I would need to step up and rethread the adapter to 2"-12. But even then, there would be a large " step" where the 2" fuze base threads into the adapter. I suspect the adapter would need reshaping based on the picture Hazord supplied ( the blue BL/P )- and I am not sure that is correct? Before I started turning and grinding, I would need a picture of the correct , original set up. See pics of what I have, the blue colored one which I am trying to seperate, and a picture of a BL/P in a shipping container, and the blue HE assy I need to modify correctly.
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I was able to seperate the fuze and adapter.( soaked threads in Kroil overnight, then heated up the adapter with a heat gun- popped off with about 80-100 ft lbs). Maybe best to keep this as is for an HE set up, ( the Mk 71 it came with is not correct for a 16", I think) and manufacture ( machine) the adapter that is correct for an ICM. I would need drawings or diagrams for that. Why is information hard to find on the 16"?...especially a Mk 146 ICM.
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