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Is this a fuze?

G

GeoffR

Active Member
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Is this a fuze please? If so, for what?

Found on a UK beach many years ago. My feeling is that the 'plug' with a groove in it could be a stopper or blank which would be extracted to insert some form of detonator device. But, having extracted it, beneath was found a 'fired' Eley Kynoch .410 (I think) cartridge head.

The circular disc with 3 holes in it is 2" in diameter and has a bevelled edge which would be expected for a projectile nose.
The overall length is 4".
The 'plug' is solid bronze with a 1" diameter head marked: vo in a square, No16, I (or1) M; /I\, J&JB, N in circle.
 
No takers so far on this one. A little added information: the Eley Kynock .410 'detonator' piece (photo 3) sits in the narrow part of the tubing seen in photo 1, and leads directly to the hollow thinner tube at far left of that photo. The wider part of the tubing accommodates the solid bronze 'plug' (shaped like a bolt with a short length of thread at the inner end). But the base of that plug, which sits on the .410 detonator is perfectly flat. I can only assume the 'plug' is meant to be a storage item which needed to be removed and replaced with a fuze before firing. I had hoped the clear inscription on the head of the solid bronze plug would provide an answer - could No.16 refer to a No.16 fuze? Unfortunately, looking at Spotter's diagram for that fuze, I cannot see anyway it would fit.

So it's back to square one. The broad arrow marking on the plug head and a .410 detonator, must mean a military explosive device of some sort, but what?
 
Hopefully I have solved the mystery. Looks like these are part of a British mortar, it's the part that sits in the tail piece of the mortar.
mystery.jpg

The Eley Kynoch, rang suddenly a bell. photo from the web.
This manufacturer made these propellent cartridges during the war: the
Eley Kynoch 28 bore​

Greetings,
Robert
 
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It looks like a detonator from a 1st WW rifle grenade. The cart in the 2" mortar is 28 gauge and the cart you have is .410. Maybe Paul the grenade can help as its a bit outside my field.
Cheers
Gary
 
410 cartridges are used for the No74 mk1 grenade igniter, 12 bore for the ww1 stokes, as said 28 for the 2" mortar but this I'm thinking is a fuse part for some thing very unusual, where is the firing pin in relation to the cap of the cartridge top,,',,,, Dave
 
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Thanks Collector, hangarman & millsbomber. Attached are a few more photos which might help.

Mortars? Yes I see the similarity with the Eley Kynoch connection - see comparison photos with tail fin from 2" mortar. Relative diammeters are 16mm for the 28 and 13mm for the .410. [As an aside, does the single fin painted red have significance? I guess it is a smoke mortar]

However, millsbomber's comment gets to the heart of the matter, where's the firing pin?
Unlike the 2" mortar, the Eley Kynoch .410 detonator is hidden deep within the body of this unknown piece. The second photo shows the general layout. The small diameter tube to the left is hollow and except for a paper/linen disc continues hollow through to the next sized diameter section, within which sits the .410 capsule. The largest diameter section contains what I call the 'plug' which is of solid bronze, heavy, perfectly flat where it sits against the .410 capsule, and is the only piece where I can find markings, see photo three.

To me it looks like the nose of some projectile with the plug head (with 'screwdriver' slot) at the tip. It looks like the 'plug' needs to be unscrewed and replaced with a fuze and firing pin to make the object active. Could the No16 marking indicate a No16 fuze? But the shape of the 'plug' does not replicate the shape of that fuze. Also, why make the plug so heavy and have it sitting directly against the .410 capsule which is inset so deep inside the tube?
It looks unsophisticated, possibly early? Navy a possibility?

(Note, in photo four (comparing two detonators) the 'unknown' .410 capsule is resting on the end of the bronze plug just to bring it to a similar height of the mortar for the photo comparison. In reality the capsule is the other way up, so the percussion cap part rests directly against the base of the plug.)
 
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Hi GeoffR,
Looks like another case of more questions than answers!! Can you post a picture of the other side of the .410 cart? one thing that is puzzling me is the 2 holes either side of the primer?

Cheers

Gary
 
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Hi Gary,
Three further photos, unfortunately too light for auto flash to operate, but they might do. I've included the base end of the 'plug' as well
and a shot trying to look inside the device.
I dismantled this some 3 decades ago and haven't touched it since, so I cannot remember if I put the .410 capsule back the 'right way' round and the same for the two circular pads. Note that each pad appears to have the imprint of a different end of the capsule. I cannot recall if I caused the damage to the percussion cap, but I think it most unlikely - odd that it is damaged but that the appropriate pad shows no sign of penetration. As you say, more questions than answers.
 
Thanks GeoffR,
Looking at the two muslin discs neither looks to have been perforated , either by a firing pin or a charge igniting. Is it possible that whatever the store was it had not been fired, but had been dropped ,lost, hidden and the body just rotted away? is it possible that the primer was damaged when the cartridge was removed? But then , why would it have a live cartridge with a plug on top?????????????????
I am thinking for the body to have rotted away it must have been tin plate or similar so could it have been a smoke grenade but along the lines of a No 35 grenade????????????????
Cheers
Gary
 
The manufacturer is possibly J&J Braddock, Oldham, who in WWI made: Detonator plugs for No.18 and No.106 fuzes. Dash pots and plungers for mines. Detonator holders for rifle grenades. No.4 adapters. Brass nose brushes. Fuze caps. Soup cans. Phenol drums. Petrol tanks for aeroplanes. Hydrostatic switches. Aeroplane parts, Light press work.

Certainly made stuff for the Navy, so the N in a circle is appropriate for a Naval store. The list of items made by Braddock - if it is them - might help narrow things down.





Tom.
 
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Hi Gary,
Thanks, I agree with your reasoning.
I can see the possibility of a live cartridge being in place and having a plug inserted - just waiting for the plug to be replaced by some sort of fuze. However if I was manufacturing such a device I would machine a raised rim on the end of the plug so the centre of the plug didn't rest directly against the cartridge percussion cap.
Interestingly only the threaded part of the plug is a tight fit, the main body of the plug is very loose (by 1mm or more) as it is placed inside the 'tunnel' and until the thread begins to grip. Maybe some form of padding rotted away, but again that is heading into the world of speculation.

Certainly I would go along with the 'body' of the device being of thin metal plate and having rotted away. That would fit well with the jagged bevelled edge of the, for want of a better word, nose plate which contains three securing holes.
Geoff
 
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Tom, thanks that's an interesting and positive lead.
I'm not sure about the N in a circle indicating Navy as I have seen similar marks on WW2 RAF aircraft parts, but I certainly wouldn't let that detract from it probably being a Navy item.
Geoff
 
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