What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Inert ordnance data sheet

I suggest collectors of Europe to open office for certification of models, and also to make the models catalog of WW1 and WW2 ammo.
:)
 
I believe that jhonni is suggesting that European collectors jointly certify their collections as FFE by way of an organisation . As previous posts have stated - this is not a feasible way to go due to the liability issues involved. A centralised catalogue of ordnance as he suggests is possibly achievable - for example if BOCN through its vast and diverse membership developed an online database of collected articles. My thoughts are that such a database would be primarily of use to collectors - EOD/Police rely in the first instance on military technical publications.
Our main concern in UK should be the establishment of a recognised FFE certification regime.
 
We are all on BOCN can make a catalogue of WW1, WW2 period of ammo...
We all got a many models and doc's...schemes.

It would be quite good to make the big website where there would be an information on all basic ammunition of the First and World War II times, with the description, schemes, drawings.
As, having such website, it would be possible to let out in common the catalog as for example catalog "Jane's".
It would be great.. buisness and hobby...
And more info for collectors and EOD's....
It is a lot of us (collectors and experts), we could make the big work.
Eugene.

P.S. We are with my friend made a book about grenades in 2008 year (on Russian language)... Now, we got a many info about grenades (new schemes, drawnings, photos and original model's), but we havn't money for publish.
 
paul the grenade said:
My initial idea was to produce a piece of paper which at a glance would show someone that an item is inert and empty before they actually pick it up and examine it. It doesn't have to say on it "i certify it is empty" A picture paints a 1000 words. Surely this would be a good thing for all you EOD boys to see when visiting a collection?
Cheers, Paul.
Click to expand...

My 2 pence, cents, centavos and so on.

Having been in the situation where I am either looking at someones collection due to their interaction with law enforcement or dealing with law enforcement over the phone while they are in the process of looking at someones collection, having a book with color photos of the item complete and taken apart would go a long way in clearing issues up.

Here is a perfect example. I had a phone call from an agency that was outside one of their local gun shows and was explaining to someone who had just purchased a Japanese knee mortar and a Japanese hand grenade that the items might be dangerous because they could be live. They were in the process of evaluating the items (unfortunately the didn't know what they had or what they were looking for) and were trying to convince the buyers that they needed to abandon the items so that they could be explosively disposed of to eliminate the explosive threat.

My response back was:
1. So you suspect they are live yet you let someone sell them to the general public.
2. You are trying to convince someone that just paid a few hundred dollars for something that it is now dangerous and they should just give it up.

My follow up question was, who was going to pay for the items once they were destroyed and the owners asked for their compensation? Even worse, who pays if the guy that sold them has pictures of them taken apart showing that they had no explosives in them?

In the US, the general consensus is that if the item is together then it is most likely live and must be destroyed because it poses a danger to the public. I've been told that the burden of proof in relation to an item being inert is placed on the owner of the item (which I find strange as if they are being charged with a crime the burden of proof then reverts to the law enforcement agency) so for what it's worth...if you have a collection of items that at one time may have possibly contained explosives then have photos of them taken apart as much as possible showing that they are free of exposives. Don't say they are certified unless you have the legal authority to do so. Like Paul says, a picture is worth 1000 words (especially in court) and can make things alot easier on you.

Oh and just to add to that. Remember that the civilian bomb squads in the US get 1 class consisting of 1 hour of training on military ordnance. It is prefaced with and ends with the same statement. If you encounter military ordnance, call for millitary explosive ordnance disposal personnel. Unfortunately this happens about 25% of the time so the people declaring that an item is dangerous may not even know what the nomenclature of the item is, what the color code on it means, what it is supposed to be filled with or even how it functions.

And from what I have seen in training lately, if your item is from the 1980's or earlier, the military EOD tech's might not know either as they no longer train on older ordnance recognition. That means the only thing that might be standing in between you and your collection getting blown up is a piece of paper with a picture.
 
It is always a good idea to document your collection. I'm in the US, so our laws are different, but if you use the heading as shown (INERT ORDNANCE DATA SHEET) and photo document the item, assembled and dissembled, I think it would go a long way to demonstrate it is empty of explosives. I do see a problem of using a legal term, Certified Free From Explosives (FFE) if it wasn't properly certified. I would be inclined to add to the sheet, other information, like the actual maker, any markings of importance, date it entered your collection and the cost. This way, if your collection or parts thereof, were called into question, you could show the photo's without even touching the item in question. As we know, a lot of things in our collections look live.
BKW
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top