ID of 40mm Bofors shell

[peregrinvs]

My second purchase at Chatham. It’s a 40mm Bofors projectile, but how old is it and what nationality? There are some markings on the body, but they’re obscured by the paint. It strips down and I’ll try and do some more pictures later.

 

[peregrinvs]

Apart from a couple of bits in the tip, it completely strips.

 

[TimG]

The No. 251 fuze is British, manufactured by "LG" - Landis & Gyr Ltd, Elgee Works, Hampton Hill, Middlesex. I'm making an educated guess that "3 GB" is the empty lot number, meaning that it was manufactured in 1943.

In 1944 ("4AS") it has been rectified at Landis & Gyr. "LGR" - Landis & Gyr Ltd, (Rectification).

TimG

 

[peregrinvs]

After cleaning off the thick yellow paint, I was very pleased to find it is a near mint WWII British example. The body markings are:

40MM VIII TX

BTH Co. N.

12/44

It was pretty cheap and I assumed it was cheap because it was a postwar example, so I am not entirely un-chuffed. :tinysmile_grin_t:

 

[TimG]

B.T.H. Co.

The British Thompson-Houston Co., Ltd.
Manufacturing electrical engineers
Head Office: Rugby
TN 2121

N - Naval

TimG

 

[peregrinvs]

Thanks for that. Do you know if British made 40mm Bofors cases were marked N if they were Naval?

 

[Darkman]

No, British Bofors cases were not stamped N for Naval use. There was no differentiation between land service and naval use that I’m aware of. I have dozens of WW2 Bofors cases, but I suppose someone will have one with an N stamped now!

The stamps on the shell are unusual - 40 M/M VIII TX. Wartime projectiles were Mk IT and Mk IIT (T for tracer), so I don’t know why this one is stamped (Mk) VIII and TX. Does anyone have any ideas?

Graeme

 

[ron3350]

I agree that I have not seen a WW2 Bofors case with N in the headstamp made in UK.
This changed and all my noted post-war cases have N in the headstamp from 1950,s. Made by RLB, ECC & VAEL.

 

[Darkman]

OK thanks Ron, yes you’re right. I only have a few post WW2 Bofors cases, but I did find a 1955 Mk 4 RLB case with a clear N stamped. Also a few Australian post war cases from 1949 and the 1970s/90s with AN and broad arrow stamped. I have over 30 WW2 cases with no N stamped.

 

[Darkman]

In 1944 ("4AS") it has been rectified at Landis & Gyr. "LGR" - Landis & Gyr Ltd, (Rectification).

TimG

Tim, I have several WW2 era No. 255 fuzes stamped 4AS. Why was this used to denote 1944 and are there any other codes for other years?

Thanks, Graeme

 

[TimG]

Graeme,

In about 1941, the British started a new system of lotting empty fuzes, primers and tracers. As far as I'm aware the system was only used during the war and I suspect it was introduced due to the phenomenal output of some of the factories.

The system consists of two letters of the alphabet representing the series of the empty lot numbers:-

Letters AA represents Lots 1 to 10
Letters AB represents Lots 11 to 20, etc.

The letter I is not used

Once a group is completed, the letters increment until ZZ is reached. The letters are prefixed by a single number which indicates the year of manufacture.

Thus 4AS for a particular manufacturer means :-

Year: 1944
Group: AS, representing empty Lots 171 to 180.

With respect to your wartime 40mm cases, are any of them stamped with a broad arrow within a circle, hexagon or octagon?

TimG

 

[tigbrand]

Postwar cases were definitely marked N. Your shell is not common, and is what is called a bargain! The tracer is very interesting and is why i imagine the shell is a different mark, what is on it please? It looks like a No7 as used in 2 pdr HV shells. pic attached and the no 7 is 4th from the left,in steel not brass as yours. Cheers Tig

 

[peregrinvs]

Here’s a picture of the markings. I agree that it looks like a brass version of the No.7.

The previous owner seems to have polished everything to within an inch of it’s life before slopping the yellow paint over the body.

 

[Darkman]

Graeme,

In about 1941, the British started a new system of lotting empty fuzes, primers and tracers. As far as I'm aware the system was only used during the war and I suspect it was introduced due to the phenomenal output of some of the factories.

The system consists of two letters of the alphabet representing the series of the empty lot numbers:-

Letters AA represents Lots 1 to 10
Letters AB represents Lots 11 to 20, etc.

The letter I is not used

Once a group is completed, the letters increment until ZZ is reached. The letters are prefixed by a single number which indicates the year of manufacture.

Thus 4AS for a particular manufacturer means :-

Year: 1944
Group: AS, representing empty Lots 171 to 180.

With respect to your wartime 40mm cases, are any of them stamped with a broad arrow within a circle, hexagon or octagon?

TimG

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the explanation. I vaguely remember you mentioning this before.

I have a number of 255 Mk I fuzes that use this year/lot code, including one made by J & J.B (J & J Braddock) stamped simply 4 A, and a very nice one by TGC (The Gramophone Company) stamped 4CU.

I looked at all my WW2 dated Bofors cases for a broad arrow within a circle etc. (Wasn't this symbol used on shells to denote acceptance of the steel batch - something you've mentioned before?) In fact I have over 50 WW2 dated 40mm Bofors cases - about 2/3 British, 1/3 Australian plus a couple of Canadian and Swedish to British nomenclature.

Not a single one had the marks you described, although there were plenty of plain broad arrows. The only similar stamp I found was on a Mk 18 primer with what looks like a broad arrow inside an upside down C. Refer photos.

Graeme

 

[TimG]

Graeme,

First is a pheon within a circle and I suspect due to the possible confusion with the material transfer mark stamp, a decision was made to change the shape. This mark is shown in Admiralty publications as late as 1945 but I don't think I've seen many WWII vintage, only hexagons. The second is an hexagon and the third an octagon. The octagon, as far as I can ascertain only appears on Australian naval stores. These marks only appear on small naval stores where space is limited for stampings.

TimG

(I think these are all Ron's photo's)

 

[Darkman]

Tim - I've not seen those stamps at all. Certainly not the hexagon or octagon. Ron may have more or know more - Ron?

perigrinvs - I'm still perplexed with your WW2 dated Bofors shell with the (Mk) VIII and TX stamps. Very unusual. I've been checked all my Bofors projectiles and they are Mk IT or Mk IIT for WW2 and Mk 4T post WW2 (they stopped using Roman numerals). There in no mention of Mk VII or TX in any Bofors manual I have.

I show here a 1943 dated No. 12 Mk II tracer igniter that would be fitted to a shell of 1943 era.

Graeme

 

[peregrinvs]

perigrinvs - I'm still perplexed with your WW2 dated Bofors shell with the (Mk) VIII and TX stamps. Very unusual. I've been checked all my Bofors projectiles and they are Mk IT or Mk IIT for WW2 and Mk 4T post WW2 (they stopped using Roman numerals). There in no mention of Mk VII or TX in any Bofors manual I have.

I’m fairly certain it is a VIII. Here’s some better pictures:

 

[Darkman]

More intriguingly I think the mark number and tracer details have been partially barred out. Also I think it’s TXI. There was a number 11 tracer used on 40mm Bofors shells during WW2, but earlier than 12/44. The stamps are a complete mystery to me.

 

[Burney Davis]

Looks like it has just been converted to practice to me. Hence the big ‘P’.

 

[Andysarmoury]

I'm with Darkman with this one its been marked up wrong. and I would say Burney is right too its a P