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Flechettes

Since people are throwing out questions I'll add one. Technically these are not flechettes, but then there is constant question of when does a flechette stop and a penetrator begin and where does a dart fit in the mess. At any rate, the upper one is a US anti-minefield air-dropped dart (as they are called). Anodized aluminum body with a heavy steel tip designed to penetrate shallow earth and exert enough pressure to function antipersonnel mines. It is 6.5 inches long and 1/2" in diameter. Obviously dropped in large numbers! The next one is French and loaded in the 68mm and 100mm Multidart (there's that word again) rocket warheads. Reportedly has an impact velocity of 800 meters per second and will penetrate 18mm of steel plate. It is inches 5.14 inches long and .35 inches in diameter.
The next one is the one I would like some help on. It is newer construction, 5.1 inches long and .135 inch in diameter. The fins are slid over a reduced diameter portion of the body, but will not come off. It is heavy for its size, but I have not weighed it.
The remaining two are examples of flechettes (or darts) loaded in 20x102mm cases.
 

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This thread has a life of its own. While indexing my drawings I found this one I didn't know I had. Not the best of copies, but it is a dart variation I had not seen or heard of before. The date of thedrawing is 27 July 1918. Hopefully it will be clear enough for you to see what it is.
 

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Hi

Very interesting thread! I found a lot new informations about flechettes.
Especially impressing is the picture in the first post, that shows collection of Whirlpool-mate flechettes. Smallest of them weight only 1 grain! 65 miligrams! I never hear before about such small darts. Have you any idea, for what kind of ammunition they were designed? Probably they can't fly too far in the air...? Are they poisoned? Probably the kinetic energy would be too low to seriously injured someone...?

EODGUY said:
The next one is French and loaded in the 68mm and 100mm Multidart (there's that word again) rocket warheads. Reportedly has an impact velocity of 800 meters per second and will penetrate 18mm of steel plate.
Click to expand...
I found some information about French Multi-Dart rockets in the Christopher Chant's book "World Encyclopaedia of Modern Air Weapons". There are 3 types of warhead, called AMV, ABL and AB24 (100 mm rocket only). I'm not sure, what means these abbreviations; ABL is probably Anti Blindee Legere - Against Light Armor. Darts in AMV are smallest of them: diameter 9 mm, lenght 132 mm and weight 35 g. It could penetrate 9 mm armor (of course it strongly depends on impact velocity and angle and the quality of armor steel). ABL has diameter 13,5 mm, lenght 270 mm, weight 190 g, penetrate 15 mm armor. The diameter of the biggest dart, used in AB24 warhead, is 24 mm, lenght 548 mm, weight 1650 g and penetration ability 80 mm of armor.
68 mm rocket with AMV warhead carried 36 darts, ABL warhead - 8 darts. 100 mm AMV rocket has 192 darts, ABL - 36 darts, AB24 - 6 darts.

Also in Chant's book is a strange information about Mk.44 bomb (with Lazy Dog). Chant described this as "shrapnel cluster bomb", that contains quite big explosive charge (9,9 kg TNT) behind the load of 10,000 Lazy Dogs in M16 dispenser. On the pre-set height over the ground the time fuze detonate the explosive, driving a hail of Lazy Dogs downward/forward. But in other sources I found info that Mk.44 was a pure kinetic energy weapon, without any explosive (except small pyrotechnic charge for opening the dispenser) and Lazy Dogs falling free. So is it only Chant's mistake? Or maybe there was some "explosive" and "non-explosive" versions of Mk.44 and the former was so rare so almost nobody know about it, only Chant found something?
 
Abl, ab

Speedy

Indeed you are correct that the ABL designation is for light armor. AB is used for anti-tank (Blindes is French for armor or tank). 24 is of course the length of the proj. My guess would be that AMV for semi hard targets (such as motor vehicles)
 
Speedy said:
Hi

Very interesting thread! I found a lot new informations about flechettes.
Especially impressing is the picture in the first post, that shows collection of Whirlpool-mate flechettes. Smallest of them weight only 1 grain! 65 miligrams! I never hear before about such small darts. Have you any idea, for what kind of ammunition they were designed? Probably they can't fly too far in the air...? Are they poisoned? Probably the kinetic energy would be too low to seriously injured someone...?

Also in Chant's book is a strange information about Mk.44 bomb (with Lazy Dog). Chant described this as "shrapnel cluster bomb", that contains quite big explosive charge (9,9 kg TNT) behind the load of 10,000 Lazy Dogs in M16 dispenser. On the pre-set height over the ground the time fuze detonate the explosive, driving a hail of Lazy Dogs downward/forward. But in other sources I found info that Mk.44 was a pure kinetic energy weapon, without any explosive (except small pyrotechnic charge for opening the dispenser) and Lazy Dogs falling free. So is it only Chant's mistake? Or maybe there was some "explosive" and "non-explosive" versions of Mk.44 and the former was so rare so almost nobody know about it, only Chant found something?
Click to expand...

Speedy, no one is sure what the purpose was behind the smallest Whirlpool designs, that is what makes it so interesting. A lot of information has been uncovered since the beginning of the thread - which is why there are so many entries - just not that information. Yet.

As to the Lazy Dogs, I believe Chant missed the boat on this one. As perviously discussed, the Lazy Dogs were specifically manufactured to have fins, which are relatively lightweight. Any explosive force would seriously damage or destroy the fins, making them useless. The only military references I've found for the Lazy Dogs has them packed in paper bags loaded into the dispenser, which opened normally.
 
I got this one a while back. It's a 90mm flechette body, not yet mated to the base of the projectile. It has the typical aluminum top and steel bottom, and the plastic plug frequently seen on flechette rounds without the fuze adapter. Unusual on this one is that a similar plug is on the base, where the assembly was not completed. The stamped nomenclature is on components not present, but when the base plug is opened you can see that it uses separated layers like some of the 105mm rounds - see page 5 of this thread - It's clear that it has a yellow dye pack. I haven't pulled the layers apart yet, but with a little rubbing I can tell It was manufactured in 1969, and was an XM500 series - though it will take some cleaning to get the specific model number. I'm interested in seeing if the flechettes are standard or something special, but no time at the moment.....


DSCN1929.jpgDSCN1931.jpgDSCN1933.jpg
 
Jeff,

I have the same projectile body with plastic plugs. The flechettes in mine are standard. One interesting thing, is that each of the layers is labeled as to which layer it is supposed to be. Writing on the bottom of the steel plate under the flechettes.
 
Are the different fin styles due to experimental mods or different manufacturers? On the US 25mm's you can find significant differences from manufacturer to manufacturer with the same model number, especially on the practice pieces.
 
Dave, any idea as for when these were made? They look comparetively modern for the 6pdr. Or was the 6pdr just a prooven test bed from the old days which is/was in use for smaller scale experiments?
 
EOD said:
Dave, any idea as for when these were made? They look comparetively modern for the 6pdr. Or was the 6pdr just a prooven test bed from the old days which is/was in use for smaller scale experiments?
Click to expand...
Yes, don't worry, I'm not cracking up. They were used in the development of the 120mm APFSDS. Tony Williams has one shown on the following link. Keep scrolling down and you'll get to it.
Dave.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo2.htm
 
I don't remember if I've shown this one before or not (piece on the far right). I got it from an EOD facility in the Czech Republic, supposedly it was a system that was being worked on by the Czechs in cooperation with the Soviets, dropped after everyone broke up.
 

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