factory sectioned fuse

[womble]

Hi all please see pic of a factory sectioned fuse with transit case I picked up recently on reverse of fuse is Dopp ZS 45- 125 53D Rhs 1940. the case has a 3 on the top and the fuse also has a 3 on the base, any further details would be appreciated. thanks in advance

Cheers

Womble

 

[Nabob]

Excelent fuze!
Your specimen is a german time and impact fuze manufyctured by Rheinmetall Sömmerda in 1940
The designation of the fuze was changed in july 1941 to Dopp.Z. S/45K.
The fuze could be set on time function between 45 and 125 seconds.
Was used with long range weapons. Sofar my docs list these projectiles (for 45-125 and 45K):
24cm Gr. 35
24cm Gr. 35 umg
24cm Gr. 35 (Üb)
24cm Gr. 42
24cm Gr. 42/1
28cm Gr. 35
28cm Gr. 35 (Ei)
28cm Gr. 35 (Üb)
Si. Gr. Bdz. u. Kz. (m. Hb.)
38cm Gr. 40
40cm Gr. 40

As You can see from you cut and the diagram, the impact mechanism is situated under the Krupp-Thiel clockwork mechanism and both have the No 26 primers.

Envy is a bad habbit so I will think of Your beautiful fuze nomore But please feel free to post some more hi-res pictures.
Bob

 

[womble]

Nabob thank you for the post and many thanks for the information it is much appreciated, please see some more pics as requested, sorry for the envy but I bet you have some really nice items in your collection.

cheers and many thanks
Womble

 

[Bellifortis]

Hi Bob,
I'm really surprised to see a Krupp mechnism in a Rheinmetall fuze. The patents for the mechanism were all owned by Krupp and Rheinmetall did not see any possibility of recieving the rights. That's why the started the development of an electric time fuze in 1926 up till 1945. The "Fg"(Fliehgewichtsantrieb) Patent was not in the Krupp portfolio. Could that be reason to get around the Krupp Patents ? After WW1 british fuze manufacturers paid a lots of royalities for for the millions of timefuses they produced with Krupps patented design. @womble is a very lucky man to have found this late war development as a factory sectioning in the right plastik container.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

Excelent fuze!
Your specimen is a german time and impact fuze manufyctured by Rheinmetall Sömmerda in 1940
The designation of the fuze was changed in july 1941 to Dopp.Z. S/45K.
The fuze could be set on time function between 45 and 125 seconds.
Was used with long range weapons. Sofar my docs list these projectiles (for 45-125 and 45K):
24cm Gr. 35
24cm Gr. 35 umg
24cm Gr. 35 (Üb)
24cm Gr. 42
24cm Gr. 42/1
28cm Gr. 35
28cm Gr. 35 (Ei)
28cm Gr. 35 (Üb)
Si. Gr. Bdz. u. Kz. (m. Hb.)
38cm Gr. 40
40cm Gr. 40

As You can see from you cut and the diagram, the impact mechanism is situated under the Krupp-Thiel clockwork mechanism and both have the No 26 primers.

Envy is a bad habbit so I will think of Your beautiful fuze nomore But please feel free to post some more hi-res pictures.
Bob

 

[Nabob]

Hi Bellifortis, the use of the Krupp-Thiel (Vaucanson for our French friends ) did not strike me as something strange. I have seen this combination before, please see the attached pic of Dopp Z S/60s. Could it be the result of Rheinmetall being the only fuze manufacturer in the pre WW2 Germany as dictated by the Treaty of Versailles? I also do not believe it to be late war development, the doc the drawing is from is dated 1941. @womble, thanks for the pics! Could I ask You to post the picture with the markings of your fuze, please?

Best Regards, Bob

 

[womble]

Belliforis and Nabob thank you for your posts, please see some more pics.

Cheers

Womble

 

[Bellifortis]

Hi Bob,
yes, you are right with Rheinmetall being the only permitted, by the allied controllers, fuze manufacturer in germany, after WW1. But, Krupp still was the owner of the patents. And, as I wrote, Rheinmetall saw no possibility of ever recieving the rights from Krupp. Rheinmetall never manufactured any mechanical time fuzes , like the S/30, also this is one of the most used fuzes in AA application. I am also surprised about your foto of the S/60. I would be interested in any info if there had been any change, political or whatsever, that gave Rheinmetall the rights to use Krupp patented technology. Up till 1933 this was not the case.
regards,
Bellifortis.

 

[Nabob]

@womble: Thanks again!

@Bellifortis
I have searched my files for some more examples of mech time fuzes with RhS.
Most of the pics are probably from this forum. There is often another mark the GT (Gebrüder Thiel?).
So Rheinmetall could be the "brand" and the allied controlers would be silenced. I think it is the only example of bending the treaty rules.
The dates on the Dopp Z S60* are 1929 (R), 1930 (B) and 1932 (O).
Best Regards,
Bob

 

[Nabob]

Here also a ZtZ S/30 with RhS markings.
In 1939 the treaty was long dead and rotting. So the "brand" idea looks not as bright.

Cheers, Bob

 

[womble]

Nabob and Bellifortis thank you for the posts, here a two more pics if they help.

Cheers

Womble

 

[Alpini]

Hi Bob,
I'm really surprised to see a Krupp mechnism in a Rheinmetall fuze. The patents for the mechanism were all owned by Krupp and Rheinmetall did not see any possibility of recieving the rights. That's why the started the development of an electric time fuze in 1926 up till 1945.

The whole A.Z.35K was an invention of Krupp (Artilleriekonstruktionsbüro Wilck). The clockwork-patens were held by Gebr. Thiel and not by Krupp. The relation between Krupp and Thiel is still not really clear for me.

Hi Bob,
The "Fg"(Fliehgewichtsantrieb) Patent was not in the Krupp portfolio.

The Fg clockwork comes from Junghans. I don't understand where is the relation to the A.Z.35k or Krupp or Rheinmetall?


About the patents: This fuze was ordered by the government and it was during war. It was common practise that if two competiting companies would not work together than the government paid possible license fees directly. This way they bought the right to let the patented part be produced by a different company of their choice . Such contracts were restriced to war-time or for a specific order. The normal way was that the companies paid license fees directly to the patent owner. Gebr. Thiel received license fees from most companies which were producing their clockworks.

 

[Bellifortis]

Do you know if the clockworks for this fuze were produced in Sömmerda or if they were delivered ready made from another clockworkmanufacturer ?

 

[Mrfuze]

Here is another cutaway I made of the Dopp.Z. 45K!