4.5 inch case

[navyman]

Those 4.5's again!

Hello Chris,
I didn't mean to open a 'hornets nest' with this enquiry!
I can see the case deformation you describe, similar to the Oerlikon rounds, but the threads on the case don't seem to be 'rolled'. Could this be because it was fired with a bore scrubbing wad and separate projectile, and not as a fixed charge / projectile round?
I see now why there's so much confusion over these rounds,... typical of the Navy!
All info being absorbed and very interesting.
Thanks all,
navyman.

 

[kahu1]

Hi ,
More 4.5" stuff.
A radar echo/chaff base ejecting shell ,same pattern as the standard HE shell.
With transit plug ,and with (excessively cleaned!)fuse fitted.
Also a standard no.215 lacquered fuse.
Quite a lot of these in NZ as the Leander class frigates of the '70s-90s had the 4.5 gun.

Cheers Bob.

 

[navyman]

Hello Bob,
Thanks for the pic's and info.
I'm glad I was in the SCR with a set of 'cans' on when serving on an ancient type 15 frigate in the late 60's, before I ran away to play in 'Boats'. I would have been useless as a gunner.
By the way, didn't we flog those old Leander class ships to you when we got bored with them?
Very best regards,
Guy.

 

[kahu1]

Hi Guy,
yes,
we got your flogged frigates and continued to flog them.
They are now diving attractions in various parts of the country,even have one off Wellington.

cheers Bob.

 

[navyman]

Hello Bob,
Glad to hears the Leanders are still doing a useful job. Much nicer ending for the old girls, better than going for razor blades.
Cheers,
Guy.

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Hello Chris,
I didn't mean to open a 'hornets nest' with this enquiry!
I can see the case deformation you describe, similar to the Oerlikon rounds, but the threads on the case don't seem to be 'rolled'. Could this be because it was fired with a bore scrubbing wad and separate projectile, and not as a fixed charge / projectile round?
I see now why there's so much confusion over these rounds,... typical of the Navy!
All info being absorbed and very interesting.
Thanks all,
navyman.

Navyman we all have an interest in ammo and its minor peculiarities !
Your case has a "rolled thread" in its neck and would have accepted either a wad or screw in disc or a projectile according to its Cordite filling. the early projectiles were I understand very much the same as the 3 inch screw in projectile I showed earlier then the nezt mark had no crimp groove at all (picture) and the next mark then had one crimp groove (picture) followed by the current design that has three very heavy crimps to allow the round to be roughly handled by machine without falling apart (picture).

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Hello Chris,
I didn't mean to open a 'hornets nest' with this enquiry!
I can see the case deformation you describe, similar to the Oerlikon rounds, but the threads on the case don't seem to be 'rolled'. Could this be because it was fired with a bore scrubbing wad and separate projectile, and not as a fixed charge / projectile round?
I see now why there's so much confusion over these rounds,... typical of the Navy!
All info being absorbed and very interesting.
Thanks all,
navyman.

I see what you mean Navyman and can only offer the following explanation as to why your case is still showing a good thread at the neck-if this case was perhaps a "Blank" then the pressures involved would not necessarily be sufficient to flatten out the case-only a guess on my part.
Also see the pictures of the latter models of 4.5 inch shell attachements (or not).
It is such a pity that all this Naval gear is hard to get hold of and information not easily available-all fired cartridges cannot be returned to the magazine on board ship for safety reasons and like all unwanted ammo there is a big ocean to lose it in !

 

[Tony Williams]

To add an historical note: the first version of the 4.5" entered service in the late 1930s firing fixed rounds. It was soon discovered that these were too big and heavy to be managed by a tired and cold gun crew in a pitching and rolling ship, so the ammo was duly separated. It remained separated throughout the post war period (including in that boxy Mk 6 twin mounting used in the Leanders, County class etc) until the automatic Mk 8 single mounting came out in HMS Bristol, then Type 42 destroyers, Type 21 and 23 frigates and Batch III of the Type 22 frigates. In the Mk 8 Mod 1 this has recently acquired a faceted anti-radar gun house (to replace the semi-spheroid) and electrical operation. Mk 8 ammo is all fixed, and has the deep crimps as shown.

 

[navyman]

Thank you all for your replies.
I'm getting more interested with each posting and learning a lot.
Cheers,
navyman.

 

[radioman1]

Info on lid

1 The case in the photo is QF SL
2 After the propellant charge was placed in the case a metal lid was screwed and glued in place
3 It sealed the case and also cleaned the barrel as no tin foil was in the propellant charge
4 Dont think that the gun is is service now with any navy

Hope this info helps

Steve Ex RNAD Trecwn

 

[TimG]

As I have subsequently learnt since my original post, the three small holes are in fact for securing a primer cover.

TimG

 

[Depotman]

The three holes around the primer are for the primer protector, which is a round, slightly domed plate with three studs which push into the holes. There are also a couple of slots for the canvas 'pull' handle. I'd post a photo, but my collection is all packed up prior to moving house! Depotman.