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4.5 inch case

N

navyman

Well-Known Member
Hello,
Can anyone help me I/D this 4.5" case. A friend found it under a pile of rubbish in an old shed and gave it to me as a gift. I've given it a light clean as it was really very dirty when it arrived.
I'm guessing that it a cased charge to be used with a separate projectile, not QF, but don't know whether Navy or Artillery. It's modern, (1962), and I've not found any information on 4.5's except for rounds dating up to the fifties. There are plenty of head stamp marks, and some stencilling which I know nothing about.
Any help gratefully received,
Cheers,
navyman.
 

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It is the shell case of the DEVIL :tinysmile_angry2_t:

The three holes I only know from British naval shell casings, so I think it is naval. This type I have in my collection as a WW2 UK model and I know it is/has been used on Dutch naval ships.
 
Thanks Hoeksel,
I had thought it may be naval but wasn't sure, also didn't know they were used by the Dutch navy. I expect one of our members may know about the marks. I'm an ex submariner and we didn't have things like this on board!
Best regards,
navyman.
 
Definitely naval, the screw thread on the neck of the case, and N5 on the head stamp are giveaways. The case was made by Edward Curran Co. The three holes in the base generally indicate a drill round but the holes are normally a lot bigger.

The 4.5" Naval is still in use (or was, until very recently) in the Royal Navy. However, the only British ordnance factory that can make the cases has had its cartridge production capability 'mothballed'.

Regards

TimG
 
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Thank you Tim,
Am I right in assuming that it is a charge case, ie; separate from the projectile?
I'd like to catalogue it as correctly as possible.
Best regards,
Guy.
 
Guy,

My knowledge of 4.5" Naval is rather poor - despite some research I've not been able to find out much about it. I believe that the earlier marks, such as the one you have were "QF separate". However, the most recent version (the Mark 8 used on current RN ships) is "QF Fixed" This would make sense as the turrets are unmanned. But you need to speak to someone who knows about the ammunition/weapon.

Regards

TimG
 
I used to have a complete one of these years ago.
The projectile screws into the top of the case, its definitely a fixed round.
Dave.
 
Dave,

Thanks for that, I thought the early Marks were "QF separate".

Regards

Tim
 
The early 4.5" guns used a fixed round

The Mk 3-5 guns used a separate round.

The mk 8 gun is a fixed round.

This case is for the separate round as used in the twin turret
 
Hello again,
I had thought that the screw thread at top of the case was just to hold a wad of some description to keepthe propellant charge in place. I'd also not known that projectiles could be screwed into the case. I'd be interested if anyone has a picture/drawing of one of these projectiles?
I misunderstood, believing that QF meant that the round was issued with the projectile already seated and crimped ready to be inserted into the breech as one unit.
Any info gratefully received, the case is still in active service as it makes a great container for my walking sticks.
Many thanks,
navyman.
 
Hello Glevum,
Your info has arrived whilst I was replying to the previous replies, so now I'm really confused! As I'm sure you are aware this is not my specialist subject.
I think pictures or drawings could help me get on track with this one?
Thanks for all your help chaps, hope you can give me even more assistance. Just to rub salt into the wound I've just found out that there were at least another six of these cases in the derelict shed where this one was found. When I asked about buying the remainder they had already been sent for scrap. So I'm at least grateful to my friend for getting this one for me.
Very best regards,
Guy.
 
4.5" navy mk3-5 case

4.5" navy mk3-5 case & projectile with 2 type of case mouth caps i have, one plastic & the other white metal
 

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Ok I'm probably wrong with your specific mark of case, I'm not an expert on cases used by the navy so will leave that to the experts. The case I had was fixed and had a screw top with the projectile that screwed into it much as the 3 inch ones and the Greenmace expt anti aircraft rounds - be interested to see if anyone has any complete rounds out there that they can show.
Dave.
 
4.5"

As Glevum and Harry G have said this is separate loading,the bakelite closure was for transit and the alloy one was fitted i believe??for bore defouling on firing.The projectile has no crimp groove,i have a complete round in crate the same as Harrys,it came from priddys hard before closure.Navyman check wikepedia for info.A lot of confusion with naval stuff comes from the marking of cases in relation to mark of gun,even though the ammo is the same.the screw top 3" is the 3"N1 used by Nato countries in the 60s? I have a round but not sure of date it went out of service.tig::tinysmile_fatgrin_t
 
Screwed thread shell!

The 4.5 early model cartridge cases used the "thread" system to secure the projectile in the case thus making a "fixed round" the thread cold also be used to secure a screwed in blanking plug either cardboard or white metal-the white metal as previously stated was used as an anti-fouling protection.

Like all these cases on firing the "threads" rolled into the cases become fainter but remain visible as indeed yours is and these cases are very similar to the 20mm Oerlikon as the case becomes deformed on firing.

See attached picture showing thread on projectile.
 

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4.5

Cheers for that Chris,didnt realise the early ones used that system.Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
 
4.5qf

New to this post on 4.5 navy rounds but will add my info. first 4.5in N or LS were fixed rounds 695mm long case single crimp, then later came at least 3 versions with threaded necks, a longer case experimental case appx 700mm long, a similar case with shorter shoulder taper and finer thread and the common service one at 640mm this has the screw in cover. I believe the latest version for automatic guns are back to the fixedround. 2pr
 
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