URGENT POSITIVE ID,s REQUIRED

[spotter]

Ive been sent these images by a colleague for POSITIVE ID ONLY.All i will say these items are in North Africa and are causing casualtys amongst the locals which is why they are been actioned .
They would like a positive id on as many of these items as possible please..
PLEASE EVERYONE JUST POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION ONLY REQUIRED AND NOT GENERAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS POST.
I have marked the images A,B,C,D to aid responses which i will forward to the concerned parties...
Thank you for looking everyone
regards spotter

 

[Madbomber31]

Photo A and B 81 mm mortar from Italie
Photo C lots of 3 inch mortars
Photo D lots of 2 cm and a 3,7 cm

 

[spotter]

MB many thanks for fast response do you know what type the italian mortar rounds are Ilum HE ???

 

[Madbomber31]

HE, Spotter i'am looking for doc's now for you

 

[Ammodillo]

The mortar round in picture A is a French 81mm a Grande capacit Modelle 1935 (81mm HE in English) allso known to be used by the Italian Army during the ww2 conflict.

 

[doctor]

hi
Yes Picture A show the same 81 mm French HE Hight capacity

 

[spotter]

Great work everyone thank you,,ive just noticed in picture A that there are what at first glance appears to be 3inch mortar rounds BUT they have grooves around them ,i havnt seen this on any 3inch found in the UK ,any ideas ..see edited attatched image (A1)

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

3 inch or 4.2 !

Great work everyone thank you,,ive just noticed in picture A that there are what at first glance appears to be 3inch mortar rounds BUT they have grooves around them ,i havnt seen this on any 3inch found in the UK ,any ideas ..see edited attatched image (A1)

Are you certain that it is a 3 inch and not a 4.2 inch, that looks very similar to the rings of a 4.2 inch British mortar round ??

 

[Madbomber31]

Here some drawings from the 81mm He.

The 3 inch has 2 holes in the fins and the 4.2 inch 3 holes Chris

 

[spotter]

Hello chris this is something ive not seen on either 3in or 4.2 found in uk ,ive only seen the smooth bourrelet

 

[blackwatch]

Great work everyone thank you,,ive just noticed in picture A that there are what at first glance appears to be 3inch mortar rounds BUT they have grooves around them ,i havnt seen this on any 3inch found in the UK ,any ideas ..see edited attatched image (A1)

French 81 mm Stokes and brand

 

[shelldude]

Urgent positive id...

Hello Spotter,

The photographs "A" & "B" appear to me examples of the U.S. 81mm M43B1 HE mortar round. The very early WWII spring-hinged tail fin assembly is a dead give away. In my photograph, you'll see the additional propellant increments attached to the fold out fins. These increments are obviously missing from the rounds in photos A & B.

Beat regards,

Randall

 

[shelldude]

Urgent identification

Hello Spotter,

I made an error in identification, it's an M45B1 and not M43B1.

Regards,

Randall

 

[Gspragge]

Are those Solid shot in one of the images ?

some look like they have chipped noses.

The 20 & 37mm have no cases, result of a fire ? Would this not make them very dangerous, even more so than the plugged mortar rounds ?

 

[HAZORD]

Spotter,

I have attached photos of the U.S. M45 on the left and the French M1935 High Capacity on the right. The leading edges of the fins of the french round are swept back just like the ones in your photos. A and B are not U.S. M45 The U.S. M45 has one more gas groove and the front of the fins perpendicular to the mortar body. The fuze threads are also smaller diameter on the French round.

I would agree with those who say the round is the French/Italian. This is exactly the reason why we have pattern rooms.

John

 

[Madbomber31]

The one from It.

Under thread French mortair grenade By Borman

 

[wyngo]

Excuse me , maybe the mortar bomb in photos is italian, because the white ring and the red nose, in italian marking they point out a HC mortar bomb, also is italian marking, the weight stenciled on body.
sorry x my english....

 

[US-Subs]

I know its a little late here, but it should be noted that the US, France and Italy all use a stretched HC 81mm that was virtually identical. I'm at work right now and not near my WWII docs, but as I recall the US was an M47? When we went to the non-expanding fins we designated the stretch models M56 for HE and M57 for smoke and CW fills. The key differences are in the fuze, with subtle variations in the fins. I've seen another similar model in Bosnia, but the fins were significantly different. As regards the variations on the UK items, there were many variations of the basic designs as produced from Commonwealth countries or territories - Even in Kuwait (91-92) we were seeing variations of WWII UK designs being sold by POF - Pakistani Ordnance Factory. If a positive ID is critical more detailed info should be obtained first. JO

 

[MYGALE]

A is a french 81 mm GC Mle 1935....IT's too late !!!! LOL