Unknown WW1 Fuze

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

EOD personnel found on a French WW1 battlefield (Somme) a 15cm shell (looks like a German 15cm Gr14 - length without fuze 435mm) with a strange fuze.
This fuze seems to have a Krupp design (like Belgian or Danish fuzes).
Severals markings : O T V and an arrow. (no EP marking)
Someone have an idea ?
Thanks.

Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by EOD personnel

 

[MINENAZ16]

I found an old post for identification of the same fuze : http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/45682-Help-for-WW1-strange-fuze?highlight=15cm+fuze

 

[Yodamaster]

Two weeks ago, we found the same fuze on a 95 mm (?) so far unidentified.

Pics will come later...


Yoda

 

[Yodamaster]

I found an old post for identification of the same fuze : http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/45682-Help-for-WW1-strange-fuze?highlight=15cm+fuze

When I see the pics of a complete fuze, the long booster of the unknown fuze let me think on a Gr Z 04 booster. German making ??? Or perhaps Austrian ???


Yoda

 

[doctor]

Hi
The booster is not the same as Gr z 04 but is the same as belgium fuze
Composition of exploder booster look like grey green powder
Alway no found identification for this shell feeled with amatol composition

 

[Yodamaster]

STOOOOOOOOOP,
the shell and the fuze we found are not the same, but well same manufacturor !

Shell diameter : 95 mm
Shell full length : +/- 330 mm
Driving band width : 10 mm
Distance driving band - bottom : 32 mm
Groove width under driving band (?????) : 12 mm
Distance groove - bottom : 19 mm
Fuze greatest diameter : 50 mm
Fuze diameter on top : 24 mm
Fuze visible length : 36 mm

Shell separate in two cavities. Depth of first cavity : 174 mm

Stamped marking on shell and on cavity separating diaphragm : 507

Filling of first cavity of shell and filling of booster are under investigations in labo. In booster a gray-black color powder, in first cavity a yellow pressed powder.



Yoda

 

[Alpini]

All are Krupp export fuzes. Many slightly different types of them exist. Yodamaster's and MinenAZ16's fuze should have been bought by belgium. The type from Jodamaster for example Chile and the Netherlands had also introduced (but with different markings). Yodamasters shell also exists in 12 and 15 cm with same fuzes. The groove was patended by Krupp. The cases were semi-attachable. The diafragm was for stabilizing the very thin walled shell (also patented by Krupp).

@Yodamaster: was the explosive inside a cardboard container? Does it come from a belgian test range where maybe Krupp guns were tested before bought?

 

[Pascal]

Hello

Very interesting. And does someone know what mean O T V settings ?

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

An interesting thread and thanks for showing. Could the yellow pressed powder be CE / Tetryl?

 

[Yodamaster]

@Yodamaster: was the explosive inside a cardboard container? Does it come from a belgian test range where maybe Krupp guns were tested before bought?

The explosive in the first cavity is indeed packaged in cardboard. I immediatly don't known where it was found. I'll ask the question.

Should you have some documents about this shell and fuze ?

I opened another thread about this shell in "Identification".
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/83127-Unknown-95-mm-shell-with-fuze


Yoda

 

[doctor]

Hi
Here my first post about the shell show by Mineaz16 http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/45682-Help-for-WW1-strange-fuze?highlight=15cm+fuze
Realy i've found two 15cm shells with this strange fuze in Somme and Pas de Calais areas
At the beginning, i think about belgium or russian shell but now i can give you more explanation about my thought.
In a belgium doc, there is a fuze for 7.5 cm 1906 shell stamped on O and V like the last fuze, see picture and whith the same external look.
In the belgium doc ther also a fuze for 12 and 15 cm shell whitch look strangely the same but copy is too bad and not measurements on
On right the 7.5 cm belgium fuze, Strange you don't think so?
The two fuzes found on the same area, and i've found a 15 cm again last year


I think that it's realy Belgium shell and fuze use by german army and don't think export shell

 

[Yodamaster]

Hi
Here my first post about the shell show by Mineaz16 http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/45682-Help-for-WW1-strange-fuze?highlight=15cm+fuze
Realy i've found two 15cm shells with this strange fuze in Somme and Pas de Calais areas
At the beginning, i think about belgium or russian shell but now i can give you more explanation about my thought.
In a belgium doc, there is a fuze for 7.5 cm 1906 shell stamped on O and V like the last fuze, see picture and whith the same external look.
In the belgium doc ther also a fuze for 12 and 15 cm shell whitch look strangely the same but copy is too bad and not measurements on
On right the 7.5 cm belgium fuze, Strange you don't think so?
The two fuzes found on the same area, and i've found a 15 cm again last year


I think that it's realy Belgium shell and fuze use by german army and don't think export shellView attachment 65388View attachment 65389

What's are the references of your belgian doc, Doctor ?


Yoda

 

[doctor]

Hi Yoda
Artillerie de forteresse
Instruction
Muniutions et artifices
Bruxelles Guyot freres editeurs
1913

 

[Yodamaster]

Effectively, the marking is very similar ! ..... but it's not our fuzes !

Let us looking further !


Yoda

 

[Alpini]

@Doctor: your fuzes are also Krupp export fuzes for 7,5 cm shells which were used by many different countries. The fuzes without any factory stamp are 99% made by Krupp. The EP marked are also mostly exact copies of Krupp models, but made in license by Belgium. Thank you for showing them - very interesting.

the markings on the fuzes are:

O (or 0) = Ohne (or 0 Zero) Verzgerung (without delay)
T = Transport (Secure setting for transport)
V = Verzgerung (Delay)

Not sure if there are some french words which would fit too?

Depending on the country the letters on these fuzes are different. I also know them with dutch, cyrillic (Bulgaria) and spanish letters (Chile for example)

 

[Alpini]

@Yodamaster: it's not the same shell, because it's a dutch Krupp 12 cm shell, but it is same construction with same construction fuze (it's just having a small lever instead a cap to set the delay):

 

[Alpini]

and here one fuze which it dutch too, but also same internal construction as on Yodamasters or Doctors shell:

 

[Alpini]

for Doctor's smaller Krupp fuze for 7,5 cm Shells I remember to have a drawing, but after 2 hours of searching I now give up...

 

[doctor]

Hi thank you Alpini for showing
you're right about krupp they have also export the first N80 GB fuze for example
But let me show my doc here about my fuze for 75 mm for belgium quick firing gun (shell and fuze) and the other fuze which look like mine , same internal system but not the same by some external characteristic of construction
I know there is not the tipical stamp of EP but i'm sure it's from belgium (certainly Krupp contract like you say)
Sorry for bad picture my scanner is out :=(
Very interesting reseach i like that there is a long time i wait for.....

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

EOD personnel found on a French WW1 battlefield (Somme) a 15cm shell (looks like a German 15cm Gr14 - length without fuze 435mm) with a strange fuze.
This fuze seems to have a Krupp design (like Belgian or Danish fuzes).
Severals markings : O T V and an arrow. (no EP marking)
Someone have an idea ?
Thanks.

Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by EOD personnel


View attachment 65352


View attachment 65348View attachment 65349View attachment 65350View attachment 65351

Hi,
Thanks everybody.
To resume :
-Impact fuze (Direct or Delay) Krupp Design
-Shell 15cm used by German in WW1 French Battlefield. Spoil of war ? From wich Country ?