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Unknown Factory Code
- Thread starter EODGUY
- Start date
That's a great point, but I don't have the entire marking, nor do I have a photograph. I provided what I have. I understand how important an entire marking is, but in the case of a code identification of this type, it is the same maker regardless of the remaining information. Association of other information is critical on codes that appear in several locations, but in the case of this ATZI, I doubt it is used in more than one country.
Bob
Bob
H
Hoeksel
Guest
ATZ (not ATZI) is from Yugoslavia according my list.
Hoeksel, if they would not know the code they would read it as it was written in cyrillic by the Yugoslavs (most likely on 7.92x57 cartridges) what would be "AT3". So this is hardly related to Yugoslavia at all.
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EODGUY, at this point I have to disagree. There are codes which can only be told apart by the caliber (or ordnance item) they are stamped on. Most notorious for example is the code "21" which is used by Poland, Hungary and Romania (the latter often unknown because missidentified). Means if one finds a 21 on a 14.5x114 which is not upside down (Poland) it is not Hungarian (as mostly anticipated) but Romanian since Hungarian 21 never made 14.5x114. This is just an example.
Also it often matters what other features an item has once it can't be identified by the bare factory code like paint schemes, fonts used, accompanying markings, fuzes, primers, codes on cases or projectile bodies etc. It is even helpfull to know where such an item came from or got recovered.
We still have plenty of codes we are clueless about.
As a small example: Once I found a completely unmarked rifle grenade in Angola (spigot type, HEAT as for the design features) which I could not identify by any documents available to me at that time. Little later I've seen exactly the same grenade in the UN demining school (near Luanda the capitol) in that country and was curious to hear from the French EOD detatchment there what it was. They said they have no clue but would really like to know. I asked where the propelling cartridge was which was inside trhe shaft before (secured by a rubber plug as often done) which would have told us by it's head stamp where it came from. They said they disposed of it since SAA does not matter to them. So this is why even slightly related thing matter for identification.
After that it took me more than 10 years to find out is was a Chinese rifle grenade.
This story is not 100% related now but I tried to visualize how important the whole image is for a positive ID (or an educated guess). A bare code-# is just a mosaic.
Sorry if I bored anybody or sound like a smart ass.
One of my major interests is researching factory codes and logos...
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EOd,
Don't disagree with what you said, but I have been data basing factory codes for 45 years and assumed some thing based on that knowledge. I am familiar with the 21 factory code, but also happened to know that the code in question was not a small arms headstamp. At the time I did not know the ordnance it was on, but have since learned it is on a 120mm mortar projectile, which I do not have access to or photos of. I will stand by my statement that the ATZI is not one that would be confused with more than one country, unlike many of the numerical codes and some other alphabetic codes. It doesn't look like anyone else knows what it is either, but I'll try a couple of other avenues to track it down. If successfulo I will post it later.
Bob
Don't disagree with what you said, but I have been data basing factory codes for 45 years and assumed some thing based on that knowledge. I am familiar with the 21 factory code, but also happened to know that the code in question was not a small arms headstamp. At the time I did not know the ordnance it was on, but have since learned it is on a 120mm mortar projectile, which I do not have access to or photos of. I will stand by my statement that the ATZI is not one that would be confused with more than one country, unlike many of the numerical codes and some other alphabetic codes. It doesn't look like anyone else knows what it is either, but I'll try a couple of other avenues to track it down. If successfulo I will post it later.
Bob
I agree with you on this particular code. As said if umages would be available of that item it would be good to see the lot-# on the fuze and on the propelling cartridge (if present there it would be a major hint). Also the packing material would be interesting to see.
Worth to notice that some manufacturers may use "different" codes when they are exporting to places where it is desireable not to be associated with.
Worth to notice that some manufacturers may use "different" codes when they are exporting to places where it is desireable not to be associated with.
Did anyone ever figure out the ATZ / ATZI question as far as what country this belonged to?
Joe
Joe