Unknown Canister Round

[Weasel]

Hi All,
I recently picked this round up thinking it was a 37 x 94 canister round, but when it arrived i noticed that it was much bigger than that. The case has no headstamp and measures 39mm x 100mm. Have never seen this size before, can anybody help ?
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Quatermass]

Hotchkiss 40mm flank defence cannon. 40X100R.

 

[Weasel]

Thank you very much Quatermass,
Do you have any info on these 40x100R's ? First time i have come across one, any idea on a date.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Quatermass]

Try this link:-

http://www.victorianshipmodels.com/antitorpedoboatguns/Hotchkiss/hotchkissflankde.html

 

[Weasel]

Flank defense

Interesting link, i happened upon that only a few minutes ago :tinysmile_fatgrin_t plenty of information on there, thanks again. So in use from about 1879 it would appear.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[SG500]

Hi All,
I recently picked this round up thinking it was a 37 x 94 canister round, but when it arrived i noticed that it was much bigger than that. The case has no headstamp and measures 39mm x 100mm. Have never seen this size before, can anybody help ?
Best regards Weasel.

Very nice Weasel, its good to see one where the base of the projectile hasn't just been chopped off to get the balls out.
Dave.

 

[Weasel]

Thanks Dave,
I am very happy with it, always a shame when things get messed up and cut about.
Best Weasel.

 

[EODGUY]

Here in the US the designation of the cartridge is the 1.65-inch used in the Hotchkiss Mountain gun. I have attached a photo of mine, another canister version, the nose fuzed HE and a base fused HE loading. The HE versions were both called Common projectiles. The gun was used in the infamous Wounded Knee "battle" with the Indians and in the Spanish American War. The first use in battle was Oct 1877, by COL Nelson Miles forces at the battle of Bear Paw Mountain. The gun was a very lightweight breech-loading weapon on a typical large wheeled carriage. The tube weighed in at about 117 pounds and the carriage 220 pounds. The carriage disassembled for carrying on pack horses/mules. The effective range was about 4,200 yards. I have attached a very bad photo of the gun, but I don't have a decent photo. We bought the gun from overseas but made our own ammo.
My similar round is headstamped: "UMC Co. BRIDGEPORT, CONN. U.S.A.". My base fuzed Common round is headstamped: WINCHESTER R.A. Co. New Haven CT. USA". Those are the only two companies I am aware of that made the cases. Most of the cases I have seen are headstamp (all 4 of mine are), so you have a fairly unique case there. The canister loading was hardened lead 1/2" balls. You may find the marking AM.O.Co stamped in the side of the projectile body. That is the American Ordnance Company who loaded the cannister rounds.

 

[Gspragge]

Same idea but -

The mle 1879 RC was 40mm the Mountain gun is 42mm, different guns entirely. The French 40mm canisters are all made by Puteaux (all French canisters for the French military are Puteaux since 1880) and a few later cases are marked as such. The American canisters are the steel can by Frankford Arsenals, loaded into French Hotchkiss made coiled cases- and no doubt later U.S. cases, and the circa 1900 American Ordnace Co brass canister which is their version of the Puteaux types. They also made one in 37mm which has evaded me for - ever and ever:tinysmile_cry_t4:
Puteaux canisters are not marked except the Mle 1908 which has an M on the flat nose. American Ordnance canisters are well marked.

I have heard (without proof) that a couple of these 1879 RC were used in the Maginot line-- maybe somebody knows, it would be interesting if true. 1879-1940 that's a good run indeed.

The rim size on the 40x100 is the same as on the 37x120 Hotchkiss and the same as the VSM 1 1/4 Pr - 1 1/2Pr & 2 Pr. They were all competing around 1900 and by changing barrels more or less you could buy the other guys ammo and so it went.

 

[genkideskan]

High Gordon,

here is a french article about the subject.

http://lagrandeguerre.cultureforum....a-mitraille-de-40-mm-fortification-t31921.htm

 

[Gspragge]

Thanks--

Unfortunately I can't read it - I also have a superb book on the
40 mm RC and I can't read that either ! Sort of pick away and translate it word by word.

 

[Weasel]

Thank you all for the great response to my question, lots of information. I am very pleased to have added it to my collection.
Best regards Weasel.