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Strange 38 cases !

C

Chris 42 RQ

Well-Known Member
I am appealing to all those SAA experts here for an identification of some cases I have had for a number of years.
Cases are seemingly Copper and measure 17.59 mm Long with a rim measuring 1.35 mm deep x 11.02mm Dia and a neck diameter of 9.6 mm.

What is unusual about these cases is they are primed with what appears to be a "shotgun" cartridge primer.
I acquired these cases from a well known experimenter with SAA back in the 1930's.


I suspect they would have been supplied by "Eley's" back in those days but sadly the box they were supplied in has long since vanished, any help will be gladly received and thank you for looking.Unknown 38.JPGunknown 38 A.JPG
 
These are early .380 Centrefire cases. As far as I know, they date from around the 1880s. The primers of early cases were fitted this way as case drawing technology was not yet advanced enough to produce the whole case from one piece of metal.
 
These are primed with the original Boxer style primers, commonly found on Eley and other ammunition from the mid 1860s onwards. They were still in use for reasons, among others, of cheapness until nearly the end of the century.

I would disagree with Falcon about the technology. By the 1880s drawn Berdan primed cases were plentiful. Thin British military .45 GG rounds, early Rubin and .303 etc.

Regards
TonyE
 
I want to thank both Falcon and Tony E for there inputs.
Well that has been a little eye opener as I had no idea they could have been that old due to the circumstances of my acquiring them
Thank you both !
 
Yes, commercial. However, the military .450 Adams Mark I (iron base) and Mark II (brass base) were constructed in exactly the same way. They are the first two on the left in the picture.

Regards
TonyE
 

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Many thanks TonyE,
oddly enough your mention of the .450 Adams reminded me of something else I have trying to find out,and you are the man who would know! is there any truth to the 'rumour' that the .450 Adams round was used in the .455 Webley pistol in the early days by the British military due to the lack of .455" ammunition?
I do have a couple of .450 Adams rounds with the shotgun type primer,but think these are also commercial as they are headstamped ELEY BROs ?

All the best
Tony
 
Yes. the .450 was approved for use in the early Webley revolvers pending availability of .455 ammo. Commercial Webleys of the period are often marked ".450/.455" also.

I think your ones are certainly commercial, although later in the period immediately before WWI the drawn case .450 Mark III was introduced and these sometimes had a commercial Eley headstamp overstamper with two Broad Arrows. The third round from left in my picture is one of these. The other is also a Mark III but has a .455 inch Mark III headstamp.

Regards
TonyE
 
Many thanks TonyE,
I also have some Mk III but have no headstamp apart from one which is G * 450

All the best
Tony
 
That is a commercial .450 made by Gevelot in France (as you probably know). It is therefore not really a Mark III, as to be a true Mark III it must have been produced for British service.

Chris Punnet, editor of the IAA Journal has for some years been collecting data on the .450 cartridge for a book, which will hopefully be available soon.

Cheers
TonyE
 
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