Some WWI German 77mm Rounds

[frizzen]

From left to right.....M1916 shrapnel w/ steel balls
M1916 shrapnel
M1896n/A shrapnel

Internal fuzed AP HE (original paint)
Same but repainted
Universal shell HE /Shrapnel

Long shell HE (original paint)
Long shell Blue Cross
Long shell Mustard Gas

Model 1914 HE
Model 1915 HE
Model 1915 HE for AA use

Gun Model 1916 Blue Cross
Gun Model 1916 C shell

Blue Cross shell SECTIONED
Model 1916 Shrapnel shell SECTIONED

M1896n/A HE with double action fuze (original paint)
M1916 Shrapnel
Long shell HE with time fuze

M1896n/A shrapnel
same
same.....................................................

 

[smle2009]

Not my subject,but very nice and thankyou for showing them.

Cheers
Tony

 

[DICKAREN]

Fantastic collection. Some great rounds you have there.
Richard

 

[DICKAREN]

In photo 7 could you tell us the type of time fuze on the Long HE round.
Richard

 

[frizzen]

The fuze on the long HE in photo 7 is marked EX KZ11 Gr 18 The time ring is 4 to 72 increments thanks....

 

[DICKAREN]

The fuze on the long HE in photo 7 is marked EX KZ11 Gr 18 The time ring is 4 to 72 increments thanks....

Thanks Frizzen.
Richard

 

[mach1bang]

Impressive, love the sectioned rounds, look really well done.
Tim.

 

[DICKAREN]

Hi Frizzen,
Are all the fuzes removable from the shells? If so would love to see some close up photo's of them.
Richard

 

[SG500]

Thank for showing them Frizzen.
The sectioned blue cross one is really outstanding.
Dave.

 

[M8owner]

I was all proud of finally finding a German 77mm projectile in the US, then I found this thread. I have to assume frizzen has been at this since before 9/11 2001. This is the first 77mm I have found ever. I believe it to be a 1915 model HE. It has "BF 15" on the side and bottom. There are a great many cases over here, but very few projectiles. I was going to toss the case into the scap bin since it was made into trench art. But then I noticed the rust on the bottom. I did not realize the Germans did composite steel/brass cases in WWI. It was all rusty when I got it. As far as I can tell, the fuse is correct for HE as well as shrapnell. I had to heat up the fuse to get it off after letting it soak in oil for a week. I still need to apply yellow paint judging from frizzen's examples. Bruce was kind enough to supply me with a nice brass case if anyone wants this steel/brass case.

 

[Alpini]

I believe it to be a 1915 model HE.

No, it can't be a K.Gr.15. These were not threaded to hold a Dopp.Z.C/96.

It can be a F.Gr.96 n/A or a K.Gr.14. A picture from the inside will help with an identification.

 

[M8owner]

Here is a photo of the inside. What are the proper colors and markings for this projectile?

 

[Alpini]

Thanks, now it's clear.

It's a "Kanonengranate 14" (military designation) and it was dark red colored (mat red iron oxide color very thin layer). The name in production/filling documents was "Kanonengranate 14(96)" which means it's a Kanonengranate 1914 threaded for the Dopp.Z.96. Better known is the K.Gr.14(11) with a larger thread for the K.Z.11Gr, KZ.14, etc. In military manuals they did not made this difference because the effect of all 1914 shells was the same.

In comparsion the Feldgranate 96 has the largest inner diameter larger than the thread diameter so it's more thin walled - it was made of better material (cast steel). The K.Gr.14's were made from cheap grey cast iron which needed thicker walls.

If someone is reading about "Aushilfsgeschosse" than the 1914 models are meant. These were introduced shortly after the war started and produced in 10ths of millions. Not easy to translate "Aushilfsgeschosse" but it means something like "low quality shell for helping out because of the shortage of good shells".

 

[doctor]

Left: 7.7 cm K Gr 14 diameter eye 55 mm, (for KZ14, KZ15 and all fuze 55mm thread not Dopp Z 96 with 45 mm thread)

Right: 7.7 cm K Gr 15 diameter eye 55 mm (for KZ14, KZ15 and all fuze 55mm thread not Dopp Z 96 with 45 mm thread)

 

[MINENAZ16]

Thank you for these details Alpini.
It's the first time I heard about this 7.7cm 14/96, as you said, we did not make the difference with 7.7cm 96 n/a.
On battlefield we usually identified this kind of shell only with fuze Doppz96 series and no top ring (difference from shrap.).

Never found this kind of shell with original paint, but years ago I found a 7.7cm Gr14 in water (I suppose protected from oxygen by the black mud) with a 100 years red paint.

Regards

 

[Alpini]

@Minenaz16: Very nice example! Yes, due to the missing color and the lack of good documents and knowledge they are mostly mis-identified as F.Gr.96 (n/A). Ten years ago I also didn't know about the K.Gr.14 with 45 mm thread. But they are not rare regarding production numbers. For example from the start of the war until October 1915 they made 21,1 Million K.Gr.14(11) and also 7.15 Million K.Gr.14(96). After introduction of the K.Gr.15 the numbers of K.Gr.14 decreased and K.Gr.15 increased.

@Doctor: Now only a view inside a F. Gr. 96 is missing but there are also two types of them (with screwed head and without)

 

[MINENAZ16]

Alpini "Now only a view inside a F. Gr. 96 is missing but there are also two types of them (with screwed head and without)"

Now I'm curious about this information because I've never heard about a 7.7gr96 HE series with head screwed.
Do you have more informations ?

 

[doctor]

Inside the 7.7KGr96
All i know it's easy to differentiate this shell from K Gr 14 because it"s not the Same Lenght body and body steel as cast iron (also not the same visual corrosion effect)

 

[MINENAZ16]

View attachment 160069Inside the 7.7KGr96
All i know it's easy to differentiate this shell from K Gr 14 because it"s not the Same Lenght body and body steel as cast iron (also not the same visual corrosion effect)

Yes, doctor, but it's not easy to make the difference between Gr96n/A and Gr14(96) with 45mm thread (subject of the discussion) as the shell had the same length (254mm) and fuzed Doppz96.

 

[doctor]

In my documentation, lenght for k Gr 96 with fuze Doop z 96 is 291 mm
for K Gr 14 with fuze Dopp z 96 is 279 mm
so 2 cm of difference....so not the same lenght