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Reference material

RogueAdventurer

RogueAdventurer

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
G'day guys,

I was just wondering what most of you used as your 'standard' references for identification? Is there a thread elsewhere on BOCN that covers this?

Would love to get suggestions of books, sites, an any other material.

My personal interests lie predominantly in post-WWII material, but if this is the first thread of this nature, feel free to list whatever may help others.

Cheers,


RA
 
I personally prefer military manuals from the country that manufactured the Ordnance, that have line drawings or photos of the items in question. The next source would be similar manuals in english. If manuals are unavailable, then word-of-mouth from individuals that have worked with the items in question, who can hopefully produce additional documentation.

You will find though, that membership in BOCN is really more valuable than you can imagine, because the members are all over the world, many with extensive Ordnance experience, and they are collectors. No one seems to be able to ferret out information and notice slight differences in items better than collectors. And with modern scanners, cameras, and the internet, all of the information can become available here from the members, as long as you are polite and follow the rules.
 
In addition to the excellent knowledge base on BOCN and at the risk of repeating myself there is a very good on line, free reference for .50/12.7mm ammunition. Just click on the following link https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=cef023994dde93cc&id=CEF023994DDE93CC%21118 then click on 50 Cal Book (2011-3rd). Information covered includes headstamp list, abbreviations, .50 link makers, tip colors. projectile types, a very extensive listing by country (world wide), US Ordnance plants, commercial producers, experimentals, B.A.T. .50, 12.7mm and so on.

Brian
 
There are many good internet sites with reference material and discussion by knowledgeable people. One example is scribd (http://www.scribd.com/) which has copies of many TM’s (technical manuals), notes, and manuals from many different countries, type in a key word or words in the onsite search engine. For a very good example see http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/82530-TM-9-1901-Artillery-Ammunition-1944-high-quality-colour-PDFs?highlight=bougainville.
Don’t forget the reference material provided here on BOCN.
Other good sites include but are not limited to: http://www.lexpev.nl/, http://www.rifleman.org.uk/, http://lagrandeguerre.cultureforum.net/, http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ Reports/USNTMJ_toc.htm, http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/CGSC/carl/index.aspthe Command and General Staff College Library, US Army (they have some documents, notes and manuals but you may have to work a bit to get to them), http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/, http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/ , http://www.kaisersbunker.com/, http://www.ch-munition.ch/ , http://militarycartridges.nl/dutch/dutch_start.htm, http://www.hnsa.org/doc/index.htmand so on.
The site http://www.archive.orghttp://www.archive.org/holds a number of items in the ‘text’ holdings, again you need to use the sites search engine by typing in a key word or words.
For some of the sites you may need to use an internet translator which sometimes provides for some very interesting, if not strange translations but you usually get a good understanding of what is being said in the original text.
Start searching and digging.
Good luck!
Brian
 
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HAZORD said:
You will find though, that membership in BOCN is really more valuable than you can imagine, because the members are all over the world, many with extensive Ordnance experience, and they are collectors. No one seems to be able to ferret out information and notice slight differences in items better than collectors.
Click to expand...

I'm already learning that very fast indeed! Re: your point on military manuals, do you know of a source for current ordnance manuals/guides for French, Dutch, and other European ordnance? English is always better, but I can puzzle through other languages if need be.

bdgreen said:
There are many good internet sites with reference material and discussion by knowledgeable people.
Click to expand...

Some really great links there, and the .50cal book was useful too. Many thanks, Brian!
 
Lexpev has a huge number of manuals from various countries:

http://www.lexpev.nl/manuals/index.html

And there are some foreign manuals in the Downloads section of BOCN, I know of a very nice French manual in 3 parts:

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/downloads.php

Additionally, a number of our members from Eastern Europe whose search engines find things in such languages as Russian, Polish, Czech, etc. can list some interesting sites where things can be found. Request on BOCN and be as clear as possible. It also helps if you use the manufacturing county's designation for an item instead of the NATO item when searching the internet and requesting info.
 
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I maintain a couple of resources on larger calibre (anti-tank rifle ammo upwards) rounds on my website:

The Ammunition Data Tables give basic case measurements (calibre, length, rim diameter) for a large number of service and experimental rounds up to 128mm calibre: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotables.htm

The Ammunition Photo Gallery provides a visual check on the appearance of many rounds up to 57mm calibre, focusing on auto cannon: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo.html
 
I should mention that US NAVEOD's Iraq ID publications have been very useful to me, as has ORDATA (which I am surprised no one has mentioned!).

Also, I can't seem to download reference material from the BOCN site - anyone know how to fix that?
 
RogueAdventurer said:
Also, I can't seem to download reference material from the BOCN site - anyone know how to fix that?
Click to expand...
Just occurred to me that this functionality is probably only available to premium members, is that correct?

Anyhow, I'm looking for a number of technical guides by Peter Labbett, and I was hoping you guys might be able to help.

Communist 7.62 x 39 Ammunition
Imperial Russian and Communist 7.62 x 54 Ammunition
Communist 12.7mm x 108 and 14.5mm x 114 Ammunition
Factory Drawings USSR or Russian Federation Small Arms Ammunition

If anyone has any leads on where I might be able to acquire these volumes - even just photocopies/PDFs - that would be much appreciated.

I'm also looking for a copy of Kroll's Soviet Cannon, and a copy of Frank Iannamico's AK-47 The Grim Reaper.


Many thanks,


RA
 
I've picked up copies of Labbetts tech.guides, via ABE Books, Alibris and Amazon.Worth a search.
Never seen any available for download and they are still under copyright anyway.

Christian Koll's 'Soviet cannon' is probably still available via.him. Check the 'recommended reading' posts. Well worth having and i think he put out a illustration only book as well.

Cheers
Bob
 
first tip is to build your own database with lot of photos of ordnance markings, measurements and other specific details that can help make an ID. also use what other guys wrote, manuals, rule books, internet, etc.
 
RogueAdventurer said:
G'day guys,

I was just wondering what most of you used as your 'standard' references for identification? Is there a thread elsewhere on BOCN that covers this?

Would love to get suggestions of books, sites, an any other material.

My personal interests lie predominantly in post-WWII material, but if this is the first thread of this nature, feel free to list whatever may help others.

Cheers,


RA
Click to expand...

What do you collect post war? Shells, grenades, mines, small calibre, boxes, clips, .........? It may help narrow down the suggestions.

Dave.
 
RogueAdventurer said:
Just occurred to me that this functionality is probably only available to premium members, is that correct?


RA
Click to expand...

Hi RA,
Yes one of the many benifits of becoming a premium member on BOCN is the use of the download section to get files as well as uploading any you may have to add to this valuable resource.
Well worth 10 to help support this great communitity a few other benifits are:

In addition to supporting and ensuring the longevity of your favourite ordnance related site :) premium membership will grant you:



  • Ability to advertise items for sale in the classifieds section
  • Instant access to the Download section
  • Upload a custom avatar
  • Have a custom signature on your posts
  • Increased number of image uploads
  • Increased number of PM's (Personal Messages) in your inbox
  • Unlimited attachment and gallery images
  • Ability to post your own events to the calendar
  • Ability to create your own Blog pages (Use BOCN to create your own articles and important posts that will remain on site permanently)


So if you wish to upgrade your account, you can do so on this page http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/payments.php

On the topic of reference material there is always the online subscription to Janes Ammunition Handbook, if not a little expensive but you do get access to the complete back catalogue i belive.
Best regards Weasel.
 
kahu1 said:
I've picked up copies of Labbetts tech.guides, via ABE Books, Alibris and Amazon.
Christian Koll's 'Soviet cannon' is probably still available via.him. Check the 'recommended reading' posts. Well worth having and i think he put out a illustration only book as well.
Click to expand...

I found a copy of one of Labett's guides via militaria.co.uk, but not much luck on the others. Will keep looking. Dropped Christian an email re: Soviet Cannon - all gone, unfortunately.

al'saad said:
first tip is to build your own database with lot of photos of ordnance markings, measurements and other specific details that can help make an ID. also use what other guys wrote, manuals, rule books, internet, etc.
Click to expand...

Definitely up on this one. Got a solid start to a database, picked up over the last few years. I've mostly dealt with small arms and small arms ammunition until recently, but it's expanding every day.

SG500 said:
What do you collect post war? Shells, grenades, mines, small calibre, boxes, clips, .........? It may help narrow down the suggestions.
Click to expand...

I don't collect so much as I research and write (I do have a fledgling collection, mostly from field pick-ups). I tend to analyse and operate in current or recent conflict zones (Vietnam, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.). So most of what I see tends to be post-WWII, right up until present day.

Weasel said:
So if you wish to upgrade your account, you can do so on this page http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/payments.php
On the topic of reference material there is always the online subscription to Janes Ammunition Handbook, if not a little expensive but you do get access to the complete back catalogue i belive.
Best regards Weasel.
Click to expand...

I'm off to sign up now! And yes, Jane's is definitely a solid resource; my go-to.

Can anyone suggest a good reference for Soviet antitank weapons? I'm primarily interested in ATGMs for a piece I am currently working on, but a reference for later RPG and RPO series weapons would also be interesting. Also, how about reference material on Chinese munitions/weapons?

Cheers everyone for the fantastic input so far!
 
My over all digital library is just over 300 gig, the ord library (not counting my EOD folders) is 95 gig, my WWII folder is around 4 gig (sent a DVD of it to Boganville awhile back), explosive folder 28 gig, SpecOps 33 gig, WMDs 71 gig and VietNam 3 gig. I also collect alot of other data. I share pretty much what ever, but I like to get info in return. Was thinking about becomming a premium member. Right now I post a lot of docs on a site called Fragweb, but you have to be EOD to get on it. Anyone can drop me aline and we can talk trade
 
RogueAdventurer said:
And yes, Jane's is definitely a solid resource; my go-to.

Can anyone suggest a good reference for Soviet antitank weapons? I'm primarily interested in ATGMs for a piece I am currently working on, but a reference for later RPG and RPO series weapons would also be interesting. Also, how about reference material on Chinese munitions/weapons?
Click to expand...

Jane's Infantry Weapons contains such information, and all of the Jane's yearbooks contain as much information about Chinese kit as is reliably known. The price is horrendous, of course, as these publications are intended for the professional market. You can sometimes pick up relatively cheap copies which are a couple of years old.

An online subscription to Jane's does get you older records which no longer feature in the current books, but it costs even more than the books...
 
Has anyone got a copy (PDF, or hard copy they'd be willing to scan or part with) of a relatively recent NORINCO export catalogue or set of flyers?

I'm particularly interested in the small arms, light weapons, and munitions/ordnance sections, but anything would be good.
 
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