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Question for Any French Dmineur BOCN Members (or anybody else that knows)

K

khanmak

Well-Known Member

I know this is a bit of a tricky question, and apologise to all members if its been aired before, but in the light of the big impending anniversary in 2014 when no doubt the Western Front battlefields will be
A focus for many visitors from the UK, wondering exactly what the French Laws are relating to picking up souvenirs. Personally for many reasons I do not advocate this, but from a purely legal perspective wonder how people will stand if they do attempt to do this.

My understanding is that this falls into two distinct areas of legality (very much as Im sure it does everywhere else!).

1) Legality of owning Ordnance related items
2) Legality of owning any artefact picked up on somebody elses land.

I know that within France it is illegal to transport military ammunition but not sure how the ownership of relic or live ammunition works.
Also in relation to finds (or artefacts) this Im guessing is illegal to just pick-up and keep as these must belong to the landowner (disregarding the fact that they may have personal or archaeological significance).
Does a French landowner have the right to recover and sell items for instance? If so is one were to buy an item and bring it back through customs (talking non ordnance related items here) with a receipt is this legal. Not necessarily banging any drums here or leaping on any soap boxes but just curious!

lity of owning Ordnance related items
 
The French guys can advise best, but I will offer this much. About two and a half years ago I was part of a formal visit to several ordnance recovery sites in France. I and my team member were escorted by four French personnel, including representatives from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Defense, with our driver being a senior Demineur. This subject came up during discussion on several times during the visit, especially after seeing fuzes for sale at a local gas station.

It was very clearly stated by all persons present that collecting, recovering, buying, selling, transporting, etc of recovered ordnance artifacts, live or inert, was against French law. They admitted that enforcement was spotty, sometimes perhaps selective, but stated that it was against the law nevertheless. I asked if there was a system in place that allowed for licensing of collectors, similar to the Dutch system. They stated that they were not aware of one and doubted that it existed in France.

I am not saying that collecting does not go on, nor am I saying whether I collected anything during my trips to France, I am simply passing along the comments of our French escorts. I would be interested in hearing more from our French members.
 
Hey:
Im not a French member, but living now at France for a while and have French friends from long time. With the law, yes, everything is forbidden, but the law is one thing and what really happens is another. You can find at the French shows all kind of ordnance, and it is plenty of ordnance collectors, if you are discreet and dont do silly things, you will not have problems, but you must be very carefully, thats true. No any kind of license for collect.
 
Interesting comments - thanks chaps! More grey areas! France does seem operate generally under a "live and let live" approach - which I quite admire. There does seem to be a lot of power locally held at Mayoral level to. Bad or unclear Laws applied judiciously sort of makes sense..maybe! Be interested to see if any of our French collegues can add any more detail!
 
For what it's worth, (and I don't even live in Europe now), I believe that the French legal system is based upon the premise that everything is forbidden unless it is expressly permitted but the UK allows everything unless it is expressly prohibited. While this doesn't answer the question directly, it does indicate that caution should be used when attempting to collect things abroad, even if they are not ordnance related.
 
Interesting topic....and yes, it is TOTALLY against the law here in France to have any ordnance at all. I even mean a single fired cartridge case that has been engraved and is being used as a vase !!!! Other items that are included are gas masks and bayonets. Yes, collecting ordnance goes on here in a big way and there are a lot of things for sale on the stalls and in the markets. I frequently see the Gendarmes at these markets and they never make a fuss or haul the vendors off to court. A blind eye is constantly turned.
But, as Miguel says, if you do anything silly, like try to post an item, the sky will fall on you from a great height. SO, BEWARE
 
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