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Question about fantasy knockoff surplus grenades

dano1917

dano1917

RIP
This is a question I have wanted to address for some time now. Here in the U.S. every surplus shop has 3 what I think are bogus grenades. 1) m69 baseball (bigger than real m69 and real crappy looking moulding) 2) U.S. lemon with mould characteristics as other 3) MKII with RFX and m228 fuze. All surplus shops have these three and always around 10.00 or less. To me it's obvious that these are cheap knockoffs, but I have heard varying opinions from different collectors. If you hold one of these next to a known genuine one, it's nuts. Some collectors have said that the U.S. had these cheapie cast ones made wholesale because of the sheer number of practice units needed? I read back what I just wrote and it confuses me, and I wrote it! So I hope you know what i'm getting at. ALL comments, interjections, questions etc...welcome. PLEASE...Dano
 
fakers

If it's cast and fits the M213 or M228 fuse it's fake. The earlier Mk2, M21, M26, & M30 grenades had a smaller diameter thread with a diffrent pitch than the M213 or M228 fuse. As for the cast ones that look like the M69 I'm no expert but every one that I've seen that was genuine was stamped and welded together. http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa2/mk2sp/index.html
 
Amen brother

Yep, just as I thought, I mean every surplus store and many junque shops have the freaky three for sale. On the baseballs, the fakes are larger than the real ones and absolutely look like s__t! Thanks for the input Andy, greatly appreciated. (now if you need a MKII or a lemon for a filler piece then the price is right, so i'm not trying to discourage anyone in that respect) Dano
 
What kills me is when you see someone who probably knows better trying to sell one as an "original gi practice grenade" or "a frag that had a hole drilled in it to empty out the explosives" know what I mean?:tinysmile_shutup_t2
 
fakes

Seen it so many times it would make you sick. When sold for what they are (a replicopy) then it is not a bad deal and nobody gets hurt. But i've seem the MKII's obviously fakes being passed off as originals the un-wary can get ripped off. and there are original MKII's with RFX on the body but the m228 fuze will not fit on a real one. Seen the threads doctored, bottom hole filled and price tags over 100.00. Those unscrupulous dealers should have their heads cut off and then someone deficate down their neck!
 
M69 fakes

The first picture shows 2 original m69's, notice smothness of metal and pronounced seam where halves join, Picture 2 is a faked m69 (one of the surplus circuit specials) the differences are pretty obvious..Dano
 

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I'm actually in the process of writing a series of articles for the IABTI on the real grenades and the novelty bodies that are being sold. I get 1-2 inquires a week about recoveries and or cases that come out of these and mainly it's the novelty bodies (that people insist are actual military bodies).
 
Don't get me wrong

I started this thread for informational purposes only. Do they have a place in grenade collecting? I say a definate yes. Since when I had sold off the bulk of my collection some months ago, I had no MKII's left. I wanted to have a MKII to look at so I bought this one for 8.00 knowing fully well that it was a knock-off. In the picture I took of it, it don't look half bad, and is used as a filler piece until I can find an original at a reasonable price. My picture is just dark enough to almost make you not puke to look at it. So yes, I think the knockoffs do have a place in our hobby as long as they are sold as such and not modified to emulate a real one. If one wants to modify on ones own for display purposes is ok too in my mind. I'll not alter my pseudo MKII to keep me reminded that I still want a good one. I have seen (as mentioned before) unscrupulous dealers that re-thread, fill the bottom hole, paint and generally mis-represent them as the real thing. These shysters need to be hung out to dry. Whew, I hope I got my point across..Dano
 

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Crooks in general relating to collectors

Dano,

I understand your point and agree with you completely.

I just wanted to add, that with any type of collecting, the minute some defarious bastard finds out that something has a value, they counterfeit it.

There are a lot of people out there that have counterfeit German helmets, daggers, grenades, artwork, rolex watches, expensive jeans, purses, etc. and don't know the difference, or are posing to make themselves appear better than they are.

So, the point I'm leading to, is that one of the signs of a knowledgeable collector, is that he knows how to recognize the fakes, and he mentors his collector friends who don't know how to recognize the bad stuff. I believe you have reached that plateau, so don't blow a gasket.

John
 
dano1917 said:
If an M69 Baseball grenade has a cast iron body IT IS FAKE, simple as that...Dano
Click to expand...

Are the real M50 fragmentation grenade bodies cast? I've seen a few on collector's sites and they appear to have a cast body. I don't believe they are marked RFX.
 
What I and I'm sure a lot of you have also noticed is an influx of what looks like quality repro Mills parts on SA. The problem with these is that they will end up on or in a real Mills because I guess someone couldn't find the real thing. Then years down the road that grenade gets sold off and what do ya get?
It boggles my mind.
Though I do not have any Mills yet, THAT would be just my luck.
PLUS they take up valuable auction space online as do the "Three Stooges."

As for Dano's question as to whether they have a place in a collection?
Well if you collect crap, yes.
They are like potatoes and bread at a buffet. Clean fill.

Go REAL or go home.
 
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I think as far as the Mills repro parts go - why not. If you start with a real body and add quality repro innerds you still have a very collectible piece in my opinion. Kind of like a US MK2 original that a repro fuze is used, still a fine piece in my opinion. For many collectors it may be the only way to afford having a certain piece. Sure all original is better, I just think there are options out there for a variety of reasons. Many collectors have parts made, or make their own to complete a rare grenade and you end up with a "restored" piece. I am not trying to butt heads with anyone, just writing down my thoughts on the subject. I have seen some fine jobs on making fuzes for the Citron Foug by more than one collector on BOCN and I appreciate and respect the effort and the result. On grenades at least I think if the body is original then made and/or repro parts are perfectly acceptable as long as never mis-represented as original......Dano
 
The M50 grenades do have a cast body, they were made from the M30 grenade bodies to be used in Conus only for training purposes when there was a shortage of the M26 grenades being used in Vietnam. Keep the real ones for combat use modify some practice grenades to go bang for training.
 
Jolly Green said:
What I and I'm sure a lot of you have also noticed is an influx of what looks like quality repro Mills parts on SA. The problem with these is that they will end up on or in a real Mills because I guess someone couldn't find the real thing. Then years down the road that grenade gets sold off and what do ya get?
It boggles my mind.
Though I do not have any Mills yet, THAT would be just my luck.
PLUS they take up valuable auction space online as do the "Three Stooges."

As for Dano's question as to whether they have a place in a collection?
Well if you collect crap, yes.
They are like potatoes and bread at a buffet. Clean fill.

Go REAL or go home.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. I've seen hundreds of pieces that were bought as originals, but weren't. I find it humourous to see so many posts where somebody talks about buying a repro, "rebuilding" a piece, etc, then a week later complaining or asking, "is this original?", or "I got screwed". Fight to keep the collecting pool pure.
 
paul the grenade said:
Smash them all with a big hammer ! Grrrrrrrrr !!!:xd:
Click to expand...

You would need a very heavy hammer in some cases.

I have an M69 grenade and I love it. The problem is some rather annoying person decided to paint it like an M67 at some point! WHY? About as pointless as buying a nice M67 and painting it blue!
It did bring the price down considerably though
 
Dano it's the "never misrepresented" part that gets a bit sticky.
The owner could die and the piece reenters the foodchain.
Looks real.
Feels real.
Brings top dollar.
Someone just the screwed.
Put lipstick on a pig you've still got just a pig.
Just MY humble opinion.

Unless all repro parts are stamped as such so as NEVER to be cofused I agree with Jeff:
"Fight to keep the collecting pool pure."
 
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