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Possible Boer war cartridges

I

ironsquirrel

Member
Hi All,

Wondered if anyone might be able to help with an interesting find. It is really a Boer War question, but I suspect the expertise of many members will extend back at least that far...

At a boot fair over the weekend, I picked up an ammo clip and cases and bullets which the man on the stand said came from South Africa. I think that was true because on immediate investigation I confirmed that the bullets, nickel-plated round-nose, weighing 227Gn and with a diameter of 8.1mm, can only be Mauser 7.92 x 57 Type 1. The clip has turned out to be the en bloc clip for the M1888 Commission rifle - slightly distorted by being stepped on sometime, but I can sort that out.

The cases are the interesting items - possibly! They are Mauser 7.92 x 57 cases, Berdan primed but with no primers. They all have the same headstamp and it comprises four symbols at 90 degrees to each other. The symbols, which are orientated to the primer pocket so you have to rotate the case to read them, are as follows:

S S 1 15

I am guessing that one S refers to Spandau, but I have no real clues as to the rest. (It is possible that the 15 refers to the year of manufacture, which would mean I have a set of bitsers, but in the 1890s the 15 might well have stood for something else.)

So, I would be very grateful to anyone who might be able to tell me whether the cases are possibly 1890s or are in fact later pickups.

Thanks very much in anticipation...

Cheers!

Dave
 
Not quite my field

But I thought the Boers used 7mm Mausers, I suspect you have German issue. How ever a large quantity of this ammunition was also bought by the Northern Irish Protestant side along with many rifles similiar to the German 1888 but without the barrel jacket and stamped on the butt with the Red Hand of Ulster, this was prior to WW1.
 
ironsquirrel said:
Hi All,

Wondered if anyone might be able to help with an interesting find. It is really a Boer War question, but I suspect the expertise of many members will extend back at least that far...

At a boot fair over the weekend, I picked up an ammo clip and cases and bullets which the man on the stand said came from South Africa. I think that was true because on immediate investigation I confirmed that the bullets, nickel-plated round-nose, weighing 227Gn and with a diameter of 8.1mm, can only be Mauser 7.92 x 57 Type 1. The clip has turned out to be the en bloc clip for the M1888 Commission rifle - slightly distorted by being stepped on sometime, but I can sort that out.

The cases are the interesting items - possibly! They are Mauser 7.92 x 57 cases, Berdan primed but with no primers. They all have the same headstamp and it comprises four symbols at 90 degrees to each other. The symbols, which are orientated to the primer pocket so you have to rotate the case to read them, are as follows:

S S 1 15

I am guessing that one S refers to Spandau, but I have no real clues as to the rest. (It is possible that the 15 refers to the year of manufacture, which would mean I have a set of bitsers, but in the 1890s the 15 might well have stood for something else.)

So, I would be very grateful to anyone who might be able to tell me whether the cases are possibly 1890s or are in fact later pickups.

Thanks very much in anticipation...

Cheers!

Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

Check out a similar thread:

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/please-help-identifying-t73113.html

The other guys will keep you on the right track, in the meantime my 'guess' is Spandau (S), 1915 (15) brass?? (S) January (1). I've one or two in my collection must hunt them out and take a few photos.

Regards
Michael
 
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Hi, The Boers used mostly :-
7 x 57 mm Mauser
7 x 54 mm Mauser
8 x 60 mm Gueddes
6.5 x 55 mm Krag
577/450 Martini Henry
7.63 x 25 mm Mauser Broomhandle
plus captured 303 and 455

I hope this helps.

Jim
 
The Mauser cartridge...

Hi GSPRAGGE, Michael, and Dutch,

Thanks very much for all of your helpful comments - and thanks especially for that image, Dutch - that really nails it down; that is precisely the item I have. So, by the looks of things, ammo with the round-nose bullet was still being produced in 1915 - I suppose because of the number of M1888 rifles that must still have been knocking about.

So, I wonder if it really came from South Africa... I suppose it might have done if the M1888 was still in service in German colonial Africa.

I suppose what I will have to do now is get a M1888 to go with the clip...

Thanks once again for all your help!

Best regards,

Dave
 
Rifles in use by the Boers

Hi Jim,

Thanks also for that very useful list...

I'll be an expert in no time at this rate...

Cheers!

Dave
 
M88

It could very well have come out of South Africa. The German colonial troops in German South West Africa were armed with M88 Commission rifles.

I am sure our German friend EOD will have lots to say about it.

Regards
TonyE
 
A great improvement...

Hi All,

I just thought you might like to see the results of a few hours work today, when I turned a heap of corroded junk that your auntie would put in the bin into something work looking at - well, for a few seconds anyway.

Re-formed, de-rusted and re-blacked the clip and then took the chalk and linseed oil (well, Brasso actually) to the cases.

Thanks again for identifying these for me - truly appreciated!

Best regards,

Dave
 

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Hi Dave,

Cleaning is always an awkward one for me, if there's rust or other matter sitting on the cases I would brush off with brass wool, or one of my barrel brushes for my rifles, and either just a cloth and/or some WD40, athough I try not to clean them so they shine. But once you start to clean it's very hard not to stop until they are spotless!

I got 20 or so WW1 era cases a few weeks ago and they where very rusted, split, pitted etc, and this was a difficult choice to make, leave how they where found and keen then as relics or clean however like you I went with polish route, with mixed results.

Make sure you dont clean off any colouring around the primers or and paint on the tips of the projectiles(although this would be more for later types)

Everyone to their own but I like to keep the dull patina where possibe, but this is not always possible.

Having said that you seem to have done a great job, and would look great in any collection.

Best regards
Michael

ironsquirrel said:
Hi All,

I just thought you might like to see the results of a few hours work today, when I turned a heap of corroded junk that your auntie would put in the bin into something work looking at - well, for a few seconds anyway.

Re-formed, de-rusted and re-blacked the clip and then took the chalk and linseed oil (well, Brasso actually) to the cases.

Thanks again for identifying these for me - truly appreciated!

Best regards,

Dave
Click to expand...
 
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To clean or not to clean...

Hi Michael,

Yes, I agree with you 100% there - I do leave the genuine treasures that turn up pretty well untouched. On this occasion I reckoned these were too far gone - both the clip and the cases had already been badly abused by some previous owner (he had filed them...ye gods!) so I took the strategic decision.

Yes, a good reminder to watch for lingering traces of dye around the primer pocket, and the nose as well.

Cheers,

Dave
 
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