Pakistan Ordnance Factory

[TonyE]

Here are a couple of recent full boxes I picked up.

.303 Ball Mark 7, headstamp "POF 66 7"
7.62 Blank L10A2, headstamp "POF 91 7.62x51"

It is interesting that despite being independent since 1947 Pakistan still uses British nomenclature for their ammunition and very similar packaging. Note they are even using the Broad Arrow on the label of the .303.

Another recent acquisition is not strictly military but is still government issue. The New Zealand Forstry Service issued .270 Winchester ammo to farmers and rangers for deer culling. The headstamp is "CAC * 270 * NZFS*".

Regards
TonyE

 

[khanmak]

Interesting.
Talking of Commonwealth Countries - The Canadians only recently (this year), officially stopped using .303 ammunition as official service ammunition, when the Canadian Rangers (part of the Canadian Armed Forces, border patrol service) finally gave up their No.4 Lee Enfields! When I asked about ammunition supply for these rifles, it apparently came from "government Stocks" - no details of what this consisted of. I'm sure I have seen somewhere some some late headstamp (70's ?) Canadian 303.
Mark

 

[TonyE]

Canadian .303

The latest Canadian .303 that I have is "IVI 82 8Z". I don't know of any later but there may be some.

Regards
TonyE

 

[303Gunner]

This lot dates from 85:

 

[303Gunner]

And the nomenclature "8Z CDN", is that a less "hot" loading than regular 8Z? I thought Mk8 Ball was only for use in Vickers MMGs as it caused excessive wear in rifles and Brens?

 

[TonyE]

8Z

The Canadian 8Z CDN is just like any other 8Z. I am afraid that it is a myth about 8Z being "hot" ammo, just like all the others myths about "hot" MG ammo.

The problem lies in the different burning and hence erosion characteristics between flat based bullets used with cordite and boat tailed bullets used with NC powder. In a literal sense, Mark 7 ball is hotter than Mark 8Z because the flame temperature of cordite is much higher than NC.

British Pamphlet 11 (Small Arms Ammunition) states that there is no deletrious effect in firing 8Z in rifle barrels. It is only when 8Z is continually fired in hot barrels that have previously been used with Mark 7 that excessive erosion takes place. The Mark 8 boat tailed bullets do not set up correctly as the throats of cordite MG barrels are usually eroded with the result that there is gas wash past the bullet. Barrel life is then less than 5,000 rounds.

Mark 8z is rated at a slightly higher pressure than Mark 7 (20.5 tons against 20 tons p.s.i.) but since rifles are proofed to 25 tons this is not an issue.

Regards
TonyE

 

[khanmak]

Aha - thanks 303gunner - I think that answers my question - I guess 1985 production ammo would be fine to use in 2009 I'm guessing? What is the shelf life of military/ service ammunition I wonder? What was the headstamp on the ammo?

As per the old Mk 7/8Z - its a bit like mixing your drinks - never a good idea! If only could remember that every time I do it!

Cheers

Mark

 

[TonyE]

Ivi

I think it will be the same as mine except for the year, i.e "IVI 85 8Z".

Regards
TonyE

 

[khanmak]

Ah yes! sorry not reading posts correctly!

Is Valcartier a government ordnance factory or a private company I wonder? There doesnt seem much info about them on the net.

Mark

 

[TonyE]

Valcartier Industries

AFAIK they are a private company. They seem to do quite a bit of work for the US Department of Defense also. I think they are the successors to the old Defence Industries but I am not sure of the lineage.

Regards
TonyE

 

[303Gunner]

It is interesting that despite being independent since 1947 Pakistan still uses British nomenclature for their ammunition and very similar packaging. Note they are even using the Broad Arrow on the label of the .303.

Regards
TonyE

The outer case (marked as a H13) for this batch of POF .303 features markings comparable with the British style, but notably different.

Here in Aust, POF ammunition has a poor reputation with Service Rifle shooters due to it's poor reliability and hangfires and misfires are quite common. I don't know if this ammunition has always been this way or if it only due to recent poor storage that has caused to deteriorate.

 

[khanmak]

Crikey, not surprised its not brilliant quality - something made in 1968 that looks like it was made in 1917!