pair of rather odd .303"s

[smle2009]

Hi all,
Hoping to find some info on these two .303" rounds,the 'brass' one is headstamped KN 13 VII,wild guess at stokes mortar?????

The alloy one is engraved on the side of the case PS 2152/6 57/5 R.G.O.F 215 GRAINS. the base/head seems to be a screw in afair.
Do appologise for the photo and not very detailed discription,but belong to a friend.

Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Odd .303

I have no idea on the first one from KN. I don't think it is anything to do with a Stokes Mortar though.

The other one is a calibration round for setting up cartridge machinery on the production line. It looks like Radway Green from 1957. It is for setting up the machinery that checks that the case has been loaded with propellant before going to the bulleting station. Nominal weight of primed .303 case is 180 grains plus 35 grains propellant = 215 grains.

Well at least I answered one of them! Two very interesting rounds though.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks TonyE,
one down and one to go!
Cheers
Tony

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Another picture please

Tony is there any chance you could get a picture of the as yet unidentified round from the top looking down so we can see the whole top including the shoulder.
Many thanks, a very interesting pair !

 

[smle2009]

Hi Chris,
have asked for another photo and will post as soon as I get it.

All the best
Tony

PS he did mention that this round has been fired,so maybe there is a part/projectile missing??

 

[glevum]

The shoulder on the unidentified round looks to be longer than the round on the right.

Is it longer than a normal .303 round?

I do know that A G PArker made a .22 conversion for the Lee Enfield ".303 cum .22" This had carriers that held .22 LR rounds and they had a similar external profile as a .303 round so that they could be loaded into a magazine, but the shoulder was shorter than a normal .303 round so that a normal round could not be chambered in a converted rifle.

If the unknown round has a shoulder that is longer than a normal .303, then this would suggest that it was so it could not be chambered in a rifle.

Could it perhaps be a firing tube for a BL Gun?

Some locks were converted rifles

 

[TonyE]

Oddity

I think it is the normal length case, but the calibration round may be the one that has a short shoulder. That was never meant to be chambered, it was the weight that was the critical characteristic.

The odd one is not an issue mark of vent tube that I have ever seen, but it could easily be experimental or some type of initiator for a trench mortar bomb or similar. There were several initiators based on the .303 case used in WWI munitions.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi Tony, Just been looking at the first case and i have a feeling it looks as if its been converted too an air cartridge?
Andy

 

[TonyE]

Air cartridge

Of course! I think it is the air cartridge for the Brocock conversion of the No.4 Lee-Enfield. That is now a Section 1 firearm I believe.

Regards
TonyE

 

[exat808]

Back in the late 1980's a company called Saxby and Palmer marketed a Self Contained Air Cartridge rifle based on a .303 Lee Enfield N04 action with a barrel sleeve for a .22 projectile.

All SCAC weapons are now prohibited except for those placed onto a Section 1 certificate before they became prohibited as per -

Section 5 (1) (af) any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system e.g. Brococks;

 

[smle2009]

Crickey yes! I can remember reading about these enfields years ago in an airgun magazine,well done Andy! and thanks TonyE and exat808 for the info on them.

All the best
Tony

 

[smle2009]

New photo's

Hi all,
just got these photo's of the KN round,top and base as requested.
That looks like a standard fired primer to me???? and on the first photo's posted there is signs of a crimp at the case mouth which would suggest it held something/projectile at sometime?
having second thoughts about the aircart idea now.

Regards to all
Tony

 

[ydnum303]

Pencil?

Hi All,
Could this be the remains of a propelling pencil? I have several from about this 1914 date or a bit earlier; two of them, the bullet pulls out of the case, and the propelling part is sticking out of the rear of the bullet. The third one has a long pointed bullet with a hole in the tip, but the bullet does not pull out, but is free to rotate, the rotation operating the device so that the pencil lead pokes out through the hole.
One of mine has a "KYNOCH.BIRMINGHAM." headstamp; the others have fired military cases.

The groove at the base of the neck on the subject item could have been to prevent the "bullet" part from being pushed down too far into the case.

Roger.

 

[smle2009]

Hi Roger,
that is an idea!
any chance of a photo of yours for comparing it? plus I would like to see one:bigsmile:

Cheers
Tony