Odd .303 inch blanks

[TonyE]

As there have been a couple of questions lately on odd .303 inch blanks, I thought I would post a few details and pictures.

The first one is the detonator for the Toffee Apple trench mortar bomb. This is based on a .303 inch case and should have the top half blackened.

It is often confused with the "Cartridge MG Blank .303 inch Mark I" for the Vickers machine gun. This has a much thinner neck and is not blackened.

The unblackened open necke cases with a cork wad are "Tube Percussion SA Cartridge Mark I" and II, (Mark I shown below) whilst the shortened cases with cork wad are Tube Percussion SA Cartridge Maks III, IV and V (Mark V shown below)

THe cases crimped at the shoulder with a paper band are the "Igniter, with Delay, No.110 Fuze Mark I" (shown) There are also a Mark II and III which have the top part blackened.

The short crimped case is the "Primer Percussion Propelling Charge M.L. 6 inch Trench Mortar Mark I"

Some of these are easily confused with various grenade discharging cartridges, so if anybody needs them, I can post pictures of these later.

Edit: Apologies but the pictures have appeared in a different order than when I posted them!

Regards
TonyE

 

[Charlie]

Hi Tony,

Am i correct in remembering sticking something that resembled a 303 in a 5.5" how. as a primer? Long time ago but i can still see what i remember as a blank 303?!
C.

 

[TonyE]

I am not an artillery specialist, but I think that the 5.5 inch used the Tube Percussion Mark V, which is the short cut off case above.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Falcon]

Charlie: Lexpev had some of these 5.5" Gun primers at the BOCN meet. They had apparently been dug up from a WW2 era 5.5" Gun position. They were definitely made from .303 cases so you were right.

 

[smle2009]

And a WW1 vintage .303" based igniter


looks like the pics come out in the right order now!

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

The second cartridge in looks to be the same design as Tube Vent cartridge for the 5.5 inch Gun-it used a .303 cartridge case shortened and fitted with an insert which is retained by the four or five indents visible in the side of the case.
These Tube Vent cartridges are commonly made by "RML" although there are other makers rounds in circulation.
Nice items Tony E and interesting to see a "Toffee Apple" cartridge.

 

[TonyE]

Yes Chris, that's the "Tube Percussion SA Cartridge Mark V" as I said above, and was used with the 5.5 inch (and others I believe) As you say, RML is the most frequently seen manufacturer, although I have ones by Radway Green and MF, Footscray.

Smle's cartridge is probably the detonator for the No.22 grenade judging by the date, but it could be the det for the No.39 grenade or the Mark I for the No.110 fuze. They all look very similar, but the grenade dets had their base painted red and the fuze det painted black. The Marks II and III dets for the No.110 fuze had the csases blackened.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Hi TonyE,
This one came out of a 6" trench howitzer and has been cleaned unfortunatly so no black paint remains

All the best
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Interesting. Do you know what Mark of 6 inch TH it was|? I thought the 6 inch used the short crimped blank (or at least the Mark I did)

Cheers
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Hi TonyE,
no idea which Mk it was,but here is a section drawing with one of these in it
(spotters photo)

Cheers
Tony

 

[Bonnex]

Just to be sure, for 6-inch TM the Bomb has a primer in the tail consisting of the short crimped case and at the other end is fuzed Fuze 110 which uses the .303-inch case for its igniter (or detonator).

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks Bonnex,
That cleares that one up,and TonyE said it was from a 110 fuze.:congrats:
I knew it came from a 6" TM,just didn't know from which end!:hmmmm2:

Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Thanks N for the clarification. I was having a senior moment, as after all the clue is in the nomenclature as to which orifice at which end each type goes! "Primer Percussion Propelling Charge M.L. 6 inch Trench Mortar Mark I" and "Igniter, with Delay, No.110 Fuze Mark I" do actually say what they are for.

Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

It would seem there were two types of Igniter for the N110 fuse,the other has a crimped end.
would this be a Mk2?

Spotters pictures again(permission given to use)

Tony

 

[spotter]

The cut one in smle,s photo is instantaneous,the crimped one has a delay

 

[Bonnex]

Thanks N for the clarification. I was having a senior moment, as after all the clue is in the nomenclature as to which orifice at which end each type goes! "Primer Percussion Propelling Charge M.L. 6 inch Trench Mortar Mark I" and "Igniter, with Delay, No.110 Fuze Mark I" do actually say what they are for.

Cheers
Tony

Tony,

Thanks, normally I would have used 'ammunition technical speak' such as the fuze is at the "sharp end" but on the 6-inch Newton the fuze actually goes on the "blunt end". The 6-inch was technically still in service in WW2 (in case you find a late date on any cartridge).

I know you know this but it might be work saying that as well as live versions 'of odd 303 inch blanks' there were Dummies in some (maybe all) cases. For instance the Detonator, Dummy, No 22 Grenade, Mark II was much the same construction as the live store but contained a paper cylinder in lieu of the detonator and had a quarter inch hole in the case and, according to the design drawing, was painted white although I have only seen plated versions.

 

[TonyE]

I have never been fortunate enough to find a dummy version of any of the odd igniters/detonators etc., based on the .303 case. It is hard enough finding the live examples!

Fortunately, I understand proper "ammunition speak" like "sharp end" and "pointy bit", probably because of the people I have been mixing with for the last forty years!

Cheers
Tony