No 119 Fuzes Questions

[Andy Naude]

Received these three No 119 B & IV fuzes. I have a few questions.

1. Which calibre shells were fitted with these?

2. What the NZ stand for? (New Zealand)

3. Where all the No. 119 fuzes knurled in the centre? Or could it be an indication of a drill fuze?

4. What does the LZ stand for?

5. Why is the No 119 IV cut down?

Stamping: No 119 B Mk. 1 N.Z. 5/B P (the other R)

Stamping on the cut down fuze: LZ 45 3 33 I No.119 IV E CC 42 /I\

 

[TimG]

1) Almost all Land Service H.E. shells with a 2" fuze gauge.

2) No listing for UK, Snufkin has better details on South African manufacturers than I.

3) The purpose of the knurling is a visual and tactile identification to separate it from the visually similar No. 117 fuze.

4) LZ normally denotes Lenz - a South African filling station

5) No idea.

The 5BP & 5BR are 'empty lot' numbers and show they were manufactured in 1945.

TimG

 

[Snufkin]

Eastern Group Supply Council (SUPEG) placed orders in New Zealand from 1941-45 for fuze No.119, for example with Ford Motor Co. of New Zealand Ltd.

SUPEG coordinated the munitions supply chain for all of India, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, so NZ marked fuzes found in SA are therefore likely to be of New Zealand manufacture; NZ does not match any South African monogram.

At various times No.119 fuzes were supplied by the UK (and apparently even America in 1941-42) which might explain a broad arrow acceptance mark, rather than a Union of South Africa broad arrow in a U. ECC might be Edward Curran and Co., Cardiff - if the company made fuzes, which I cannot confirm.

 

[Gspragge]

Did the 119 supercede the 117 as early as 1941 ? Or were both produced at the same time. I'm looking for a 117 but a Canadian 1941 or early 42 119 would be just as good in this case then.

 

[Snufkin]

Did the 119 supercede the 117 as early as 1941 ? Or were both produced at the same time. I'm looking for a 117 but a Canadian 1941 or early 42 119 would be just as good in this case then.

The attached from the minutes of the SA Munitions Production Committee, 3rd June 1941. The No.119 fuze was being made in the US, so you might get lucky with either a US or Canadian example circa 1941-2. TimG is almost certainly the best person for UK contract dates for both No.117 and No.119, and that might well reflect on Canadian production.



.

 

[Andy Naude]

Thank you all for the detailed explanations. Much appreciated.

Andy

 

[Depotman]

Did the 119 supercede the 117 as early as 1941 ? Or were both produced at the same time. I'm looking for a 117 but a Canadian 1941 or early 42 119 would be just as good in this case then.

No, it didn't supercede the 117 at all. The 117 was a Direct Action Percussion fuze, whereas the 119 was also a Direct Action Percussion fuze, but with a 'Graze' action added. Depotman

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

If you look at the "sticky" list of fuzes (the list was available to me when I was an apprentice AT in 1978 - 80, for use as a guide) it tells you when the fuzes were in service. I remember seeing a blown No 117 Mk 17 in the late 1980s but don't remember more about it, such as a date that might have been marked on it.

 

[Fairfax41]

Dear all,

I am a new member here) I also have questions about the type 119B fuse. I found an exploded fuse with the markings "Type 119B Mk3" on it. It was buried on a hillside in the southern section of Hong Kong Island, a relic of the battle back in December 1941. Can anyone tell me the dates when the Type 119B Mk3 entered service and when it was replaced by the Mk4? Apparently these fuses were fitted onto the BL. Mk 10 costal artillery guns that were turned around to fire inland at the advancing Japanese.

 

[Depotman]

Dear all,

I am a new member here) I also have questions about the type 119B fuse. I found an exploded fuse with the markings "Type 119B Mk3" on it. It was buried on a hillside in the southern section of Hong Kong Island, a relic of the battle back in December 1941. Can anyone tell me the dates when the Type 119B Mk3 entered service and when it was replaced by the Mk4? Apparently these fuses were fitted onto the BL. Mk 10 costal artillery guns that were turned around to fire inland at the advancing Japanese.

I think that you are slightly confused by the position of the stamped "B", which is above the fuze number and doesn't relate to it. There was in fact a No. 119B Mk III which was made of steel and "not sealed" (i.e. the design was never accepted and not put into production). The "B" probably refers to its manufacturer, which was likely the "British Die-Casting Co. Ltd" in London.

The No. 119 Mk III was introduced with List of Change "B4071" dated 25/04/1940; and the Mk IV was introduced with List of Change "B4920" dated 22/07/1940.

Hope this helps! Depotman

 

[Fairfax41]

Dear Depotman,

Thank you so much for getting back to me!

That is very interesting! You have definitely helped a great deal with my research and the introduction date you mentioned for the 119 Mk3 fit in nicely with the dates for the battle of Hong Kong.

Yes you are right all this time I assumed the letter "B" was part of fuse number! It hadn't occurred to me that it was unrelated to that and that it was possibly the manufacturer's code. Thank you very much for clearing that up.

I do have another question if I may; there is another smaller stamp "P63" near the nose of the fuse. What do you think that could be? A lot number perhaps?

Thank you very much again for your kind help!

 

[Depotman]

Glad I could help with the Mks etc. I can only guess at "P63" however, which I think is an Inspector's stamp.
Depotman

 

[ron3350]

I have this exploded relic No 119B Mk 17 fuze stamped 20 MY 5/61 so seems Australian filled.
The British fuze listing from earliest to No 952 says No 119B intro. 1943 and obsolete 1962 with 15 marks of fuze. (Obviously 17 marks).

 

[Fairfax41]

Glad I could help with the Mks etc. I can only guess at "P63" however, which I think is an Inspector's stamp.
Depotman

Thank you very much again ! Yes I was thinking the P63 stamp might be something along those lines as well