more 9mm headstamps

[smle2009]

Hi everyone,
recieved these two 9mm in part of a swap with Andysarmoury(thanks Andy) can anyone id who manufactured them & if they are commercial or military? sorry about the bad photo's the light is useless in here at night!
Cheers Tony

 

[dano1917]

clarity

Hi Tony, Unfortunately I cannot help with identification on these headstamps, but did want to comment on the pictures of the headstamps. My camera will not even come close to taking headstamps of small caliber stuff. With helpful hints from a couple of BOCN members I can do a mean 37mm headstamp but that's it. I'm sure some knowledgable individuals will be able to help with identification but I don't have a clue. Best to you my friend...Dano

 

[smle2009]

Hi Dano,
no news yet? I'm close to going to the post office and kicking off big time,they promissed me one week for the second packet to get to you! I only have a Olympus camedia but it does have macro on it but you need daylight to get decent close ups
All the best to you and yours
Tony

 

[zwerge]

Hi, the case on the right is Czech made in 1949.

 

[smle2009]

Hi Zwerge,
Thanks for the id,do you know if they are military or commercial?
Cheers Tony

 

[zwerge]

The rounds I have are 7.92 X 57 with the identical HS,they are brass case FMJ,so I think they are military.

 

[smle2009]

Thanks again Zwerge, one more to squeeze into my cabinet now!
Cheers Tony

 

[TonyE]

9mm

The Czech round is definitely military. The other round I am not so sure about. Is the Headstamp "P * 9mm*"? If so it could be from Polte, and may be commercial or at least a police load.

Lew - come in and tell tony what it is!

Regards
TonyE

 

[MissingSomething]

The first one is Hungarian Commercial.

Matravideki Femmuvek Sirok
Sirok, Hungary


+1 on Lew being the 9mm Guru. His books on headstamps are the definitive work on the subject.

 

[Lewis]

Tony, P * 9mm * is a commercial out of Hungary. The one with the male symbol on the top is Czech from 49, most of these are from the 50s, by PS which is now in the Slovak Republic and which closed a few years ago. It is military, and if the bullet is nickel color it has a steel core.

Cheers,

Lew

 

[Lewis]

Sorry, I have only been checking the Small Arms Ammo and didn't seen this until Slick Rick called my attention to it. The P * 9mm * is commercial out of Hungary as noted earlier. Various minor load variations showed up between 1985 and 1988 packed in commercial boxes labelled as Concord or Fly Bullets, and a typical Soviet metal can of it showed up with white 25 round boxes marked only "9mm Para" in black on the top. The OD metal can was simply marked 9mm Para on the top in black. I'd call it a commercial load, but the one batch in the metal can with the generic boxes is anybodies guess.

The other round is Czech by PS (now in the Slovak Republic and out of business since about 3 years ago). It is one of a batch of military ammo made in the very late 1940s and early 1950s with a whole set of symbols on the headstamps. This ammo was made by both PS and S&B. I've never gotten a good explaination on it. If you cartridge has a nickel color bullet than it has an iron core like the German mE bullets.

Cheers,

Lew

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks all of you,Lews the czech 9mm has a nickel colour jacket,and is magnetic,so am I breaking our stupid law regarding A/P ammo by having this round?
Lew did you get my PM the other week ref; the later DAG 9mm blank?
All the best to all
Tony

 

[Lewis]

Tony, It falls in the same class as the German WW II 9x19mm with black bullets and iron cores. They were not designed as AP, but I don't know what the British law says about them.

I did get your note on the DAG blank, but guess I forgot to answer in all the travel. It is a normal commercial item.

Cheers,

Lew