Lucky .303 find

[TonyE]

Although the .303 ball Mark VII is always known as having a 174 grain bullet, the original Mark VII adopted in March 1910 had a 160 grain bullet. The earlier bullet had a longer aluminium tip filler and no cannelure.

In August 1910 a newly made batch failed accuracy proof and production was suspended. A new design to RL 17069 was adopted and approved in November 1910 as the now familiar 174 grn bullet. The Mark VII designation was not advanced, probably to avoid embarrassing questions in the press and parliament.

Yesterday I pulled a Greenwood & Batley 1913 dated Mark VII for a totally different reason and to my delight found an uncannelured bullet. Weighing confirmed it was a 160 grain bullet, and even better the base was stamped "GB 7".

Although this is after the introduction of the 174 grain bullet, it seems G & B used up stocks on hand of the 160 grain. I knew from someone else that these G & B 160 grain loads existed but this is the first one I have found.

Regards
TonyE

 

[MissingSomething]

Nice find Tony.

Any way to tell if a 303 has the 160gr bullet without pulling it?

 

[smle2009]

Nice find TonyE,
do you have any ideas about this double cannelure one? I have no idea from what case it came from as it is a pick up from a WW2 pre D-day live firing practice site.
It is 'silver' colour,reluctant to use CN to discribe it as it has no magnetic attraction at all.

Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

oh bum! here is photo's

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi Tony, is this any help mine is made by Winchester in 1915 could yours be the same?
cheers
Andy

 

[TonyE]

Double cannelures

Many of the US made .303 bullets have double cannelures. I wonder if this is so that the bullets could either be loaded at the US factory where they used a coned mouth crimp, or supplied to British/Canadian factories where they used the lower 3 x 120 degree slit neck crimp.

That is purely conjecture and I have not found any confirmation.

BTW, cupro-nickel (CN) will not attract a magnet. Only cupro-nickel clad steel (CNCS) will do that. You bullet is CN.

MissingSomething - the only way other than pulling it is to weigh it. The normal 174 grain loaded round is in the range 395 -400 grains usually, depending on the manufacturer. The 160 grain round will come in at about 380-385 grains.

The G13 one I found weighed in at 381 grains.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Hi TonyE and Andy,
wasn't the U.S. manufactured bullets shorter,because of no tip 'filler' being used and to keep the weight the same?
Photo of same bullet with a 1915 KN on the left and a 1942 WRA on the right

Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

US made .303

That is certainly true of WW2 US production, but I am less sure about WWI. I have a feeling that some WWI US production utilised the normal construction. I will see if I have any spare WWI projs and get the saw out!

Cheers
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

That is intresting and things are starting to fit together nicely,I have reserched this site and it was only used for live firing exercises during WW2,but I have found evidence that 'old' stock/reserve ammunition was used on this site as I have found a small number of MkII/V .303" bullets also.
I have located one firing point on this site but only found mid to late 30's British MkVII and one later(SR 1942) MkVIII .303" case's,as this site is in a valley and because of nature of 'spread' of spent projectiles it would seem there would have been several firing points(yet to find! and have a spare day on Thursday!!!:tinysmile_hmm_t.
I think Andy may have hit the nail on the head first time!
Will keep you informed if I 'turn up' another firing point.

Cheers
Tony