lead bullet heads for id please

[timeout]

I am on the look out for help again....I have some lead bullet heads for ID please. I dont think any of them are the same. some were found at a beach location in Prestatyn, this was a big ww1 open range. I have photoed each twice side on and base on. The only ones with three photos is the hollow points. i have listed the length, dia, weight, and any depth of the hollows.
photo 1-2,= length = 32mm, dia = 11mm weight =30g or 1.1oz slight hollow in the base.



photo 3-4 = length =37mm, dia = 14mm, weight = 33g or 1.2oz, 13mm hollow in the base.


photo 5-6 = length = 25mm, dia = 14mm, weight = 33g or 1.2oz, 10 mm hollow in base


photo 7-8 = length = 26mm, dia = 14mm weight = 33g or 1.2oz, 12mm hollow in base


photo 9-10 = length = 24mm, dia = 14mm dia with lugs 16mm weight = 34g or 1.23oz solid base with 4 lugs


photo 11-12 = length = 24mm, dia = 14mm weight = 34g or 1.2oz, 8mm hollow in base


photo 13-14 = length = 21mm, dia = 14mm, weight = 29g or 1oz solid base with two lugs


photo 15-16 = length = 23mm, dia = 11mm weight = 17g or .0.6oz 10mm hollow in base


photo 17-18 = length = 21mm dia = 11mm weight = 17g or 0.6oz 8mm hollow in base


photo 19 - 21 = length = 21mm dia = 9mm, weight = 17g or 0.6oz 8mm hollow in base.


many thanks for your help, would anyone know of any books giving this info?........paul.

 

[TonyE]

Fired lead bullets are notoriously difficult to identify, mainly because of the variety in length and weight when they were cast or swaged. Fortunately, British military bullets tended to be more uniform and most of yours are british military.

I believe them to be as follows:

1-2: .45 Martini Henry, almost certainly Ball Mark III
3-4: .577 Snider. Three saw toothed cannelures means that it is a Pattern IV or V. The clay expanding plug in the base of the bullet is missing.
5-6: .577 Pattern 53 (or similar)muzzle loader. as above regarding plug
7-8: As above.
9-10: Bullet for Jacob's muzzle loading rifle. The four studs fitted into the four rifling grooves.
11-12; Another .577 Pattern 53 muzzle loaded bullet
13-14: Two lugs on the bullet would indicate it was for the Brunswick muzzle loading rifle.
15-16: Webley Revolver .455 Ball Mark II
17-18: Same
19-21; Unknown .35 calibre for a sporting rifle.

One small point with respect though. Can we call bullets what they are, i.e. "Bullets" and not "Bullet heads"? The head of a cartridge is the other end where the primer is, hence "headstamp". Pedantic I know, and I can hear the other regulars laughing at my little foible that I repeat endlessly, but terminology is important.

To be even more obtuse, technically the head of a bullet is the ogive above the parallel portion of the bullet and is usually described in terms of the calibre, e.g. a "6 calibre radius head".

Cheers
TonyE

 

[bdgreen]

In general terminology as defined by Wikipedia: A cartridge (also called a round or a shell) is a type of ammunition packaging a bullet, a propellant substance (usually either smokeless powder or black powder) and a primer within a metallic, paper, or plastic case that is precisely made to fit within the firing chamber of a firearm.[1] The primer is a small charge of an impact-sensitive or electric-sensitive chemical mixture that can be located at the center of the case head (centerfire ammunition), inside a rim (rimfire ammunition), or in a projection such as in a pinfire or teat-fire cartridge. Military and commercial producers also make caseless ammunition. A cartridge without a bullet is called a blank. One that is completely inert (contains no active primer and no propellant) is called a dummy. In popular use, the term "bullet" is often misused to refer to a complete cartridge.:tinysmile_hmm_t:

Bullet head is nonsensical terminology.:tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_hmm_t:

 

[timeout]

See what happens when you are new to this, and over 10 years in the army and we have all been calling them the wrong thing! Not to worry i will try and do better next time and use the correct terminology. I know how you feel as in some of my other hobbies it bugs me when things are not said as they should be.
Once again many thanks to TonyE for the id.....i still have some more but they are a lot smaller in size and weight, some odd shapes. As I said there was a WW1 range on the beach from Rhyl to Prestatyn, North Wales. Most of them came from there. For those of you who collect them you need low water and search in and around the exposed stones. (most of the beach is sand) I also understand from my grandad that he worked at RAF Sealand just up the coast on the Dee, that he painted spitfires in US colours and they were packed and shipped to the states, before they were sent they did a weapons test using the same beach. On very low tides you can recover 20mm cartridges from the low water mark. I have a few from there. A bit more off the coast in Liverpool bay was the towing range, where old ships were towed a used as targets. Today the wrecks make great fishing locations.

 

[bdgreen]

Timeout,

Interesting bullets! Most of them (if not all) predate WW1, in particular the muzzle loading Jacob's and Brunswick bullets could date to the mid 1800's. So it would seem the area where you are finding these bullets may have been a military target range long before WW1. Or its possible they were fired in the early 1900's by people who enjoyed shooting blackpowder firearms. More research may shed some light on the matter. Keep searching as you might find some more unusual and interesting bullets.