Kings Norton

[highlandotter]

I have just landed a 11/2 pdr case stamped:11/2 PR1, and a logo with KN inside. No date or other marks. It came with an Austrian projectile marked SW, for Skoda Werke. I have no information about King Norton except that they were in business in the early 1900s near Birmingham. looks like it has never been loaded and has no prinmer or crimps for the projectile, so I beleive they are not matched. However, England sold a couple of cruisers to Austria which included 11/2 Maxims in their armament.This could be an example of export case reloaded with home made projectile, as there are 2 fine punch marks ariund the primer well such as indicate reloads in some countries. Any help here would be appreciated. Also, I have a 1" aiming or Nordenfelt round, case marked:ECI. I cannot find this marking, only ones near to it were US, and I doubt they produced this case. Any information on maker and date also helpful Thanks in advance, Highlandotter

 

[Falcon]

The 1" Nordenfelt was made by Eley Bros. Ltd., London. The "C" indicates a cordite load instead of blackpowder. The "I" Indicates mark 1.

Sorry I can't help you on the 1 1/2 Pr.

 

[highlandotter]

Thsnks Falcon for the info.Best regards, Highlandotter

 

[TonyE]

KN

Kings Norton Metal Co (KNMCo) were formed in 1890 at Kings Norton to the south east of Birmingham and were an important ammunition maker to both the civilian and government trade. They had their own rolling mill for the production of brass sheet so were not dependent on other suppliers. They also had a filling factory at Abbey Wood in Kent

They made both small arms and artillery ammunition and in WWI were considered to make the highest quality .303 of all the producers. Consequently they made much of the special purpose ammunition like tracer and incendiary for air service.

Post WWI they were absorbed into Explosive Trades Ltd which in turn became Nobels and then Imperial Chemical Industries. Ammunition under their own name was last made in 1920.

Regards
TonyE

 

[TonyE]

1 inch

Just to add a little to Falcon's post...

Your 1 inch round is actually a "Cartridge Aiming Rifle 1 inch Percussion Cordite Mark I" rather than a Nordenfelt round. It should have (or had) a pointed lead bullet, whilst Nordenfelts had steel bullets with brass gas check/envelope.

There were no Cordite loaded Nordenfelt rounds in British service, although Kynoch did make some for export after WWI.

Regards
TonyE

 

[ydnum303]

1 1/2-Pdr

Any chance of some photos of this case, and some dimensions?

If it had been for British service, it would most probably have had a date, plus various inspector's marks, and a Lot number. I have seen a few cases KN made for export, and these have only had a date, plus the KN "tin can" logo in the headstamp.

Roger.

 

[Gspragge]

here they are

Looks like an export case to me - the screw in primer on a prewar case would to me be a customer preference, if Austria went to this style before WW1 then this could indeed have gone to them. Putting an uncrimped round in a belt feed like the Maxim is risky as the projectile could and often was held in the belt if it was tight. I wonder if they had other guns using this round at the time.
image via HighlandOtter

 

[highlandotter]

Thanks Tony. I had not come across this maker( Kings Norton) in the 12 years that I have collected early small caliber artillery shells and I could not find much on the net. The only other Nordenfelt 1" I have is an Italian projectile. This round has a firmly crimped lead projectile and the powder was removed by unscrewing the primer. Thanks again, and best regards. Highlandotter

 

[highlandotter]

Thanks Roger for your info. My friend Gspragge has kindly posted images of the KN round. I am wondering about the lack of date on the case. I have frustrating trials in trying to post images on BOCN due to minimal computer skills, I can attach photos to email (wild cheers in the background!!)but struggle to get images from computer drive to BOCN. AM still working on it and hope to post more photos of my collection soon. Thanks again for you input,Best regards, Highlandotter

 

[ydnum303]

Hi Gordon and Highlandotter,

Thanks for the photo; a very nice looking round! Also a very British style of headstamp insofar as the "1PR I" goes, the "I" being the Mark Number.

When would this date from? Did Britain ever use this calibre? As far as I have been able to find out, we did not stamp the date or Lot number on these early rounds.

Roger.

 

[Gspragge]

I think before WW1

They were commercial and were taken into service in the usual panic and that's when military marked ammunition starts to be made. But no doubt the commercial stuff was used too, just like the 1 Pr. in the Boer War, none of those have military marks, but they are service issue too. Pre WW1 issue I think it is impossible to tell commercial from military use. Maybe some primer or crimp differences but I can't think of much else. Canada bought two for sure 1 1/4 Maxims (we still have them) but the only casing I ever found over here for one (and you can never really be sure even then) was the same size as the 1 1/2 Pr case, had VS&M in a circle just like the 1 Pr. and it had the so called Nordenfelt groove around the primer pocket. I will look for the image.
I don't have it anymore and thought it was just another 1 1/2 Pr case, just earlier than most. After it was gone I found out what the then"Mythical"
1 1/4 Pr was ~
Found them, the case was fired so the short neck and shoulder that these have was a bit expanded and cracked from thinness and age. But I think this is what one could consider a 1 1/4 Pr case to be like, failing so far the known existence of a 1 1/4 Pr marked case.

 

[ydnum303]

Records of the KN Co seem to be very sparse, and there are no known lists or catalogues of what they produced, or for whom. The NRA over here has quite a bit of correspondence with them (dating from about 1907; they destroyed all the earlier correspondence some years ago because they were running out of space!), but mostly in connection with contracts to supply .303" and .22" ammunition for members of Rifle Clubs and the NRA. Nothing on larger calibres, unfortunately.

Roger.