What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

K24 7.62x54R

smle2009

smle2009

Well-Known Member
Hi to all,
another odd one from the R&D site,a 1924 Kynoch 7.62x54R that has been experimented with...guessing with a fluted chamber weapon?????...also the primer strike is rather odd too.....I'll let the photos do the talking :wink:......but any ideas again chaps?


Tony

P1250003.jpgP1250004.jpgP1250005.jpgP1250006.jpg
 
Tony, the purple stripe indicates a Proof House proof loading. The primer has set back because of the extreme pressure and this has caused the soft metal to be pushed back against the bolt face. Nice find!
Jim
 
Interesting case.

That ammunition was originally a contract for Finland so how it came to be where it was is a mystery.

Whilst the purple stripe is most often used on Proof House ammunition in a commercial environment, in the military it is simply a means of distinguishing a particular case or batch of ammunition. Of course, it could also simply mean they had acquired some proof ammunition to test a ShKAS.

Cheers
TonyE
 
Many thanks to all.......they seem to like the purple lacquer/ink/paint at this site and even slapped it on 50BMG gun housing pressure testing cartridges(L13A1 being the donar rounds).
A lot of various testing(often to the point of destruction) has been carried out and for some reason the remains have been kept until now.
Which means I have a 20x110 Hispano and a .450"/.303" plate testing rounds in my collection now:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

Cheers
Tony
 
TonyE said:
Interesting case.

That ammunition was originally a contract for Finland so how it came to be where it was is a mystery.

Whilst the purple stripe is most often used on Proof House ammunition in a commercial environment, in the military it is simply a means of distinguishing a particular case or batch of ammunition. Of course, it could also simply mean they had acquired some proof ammunition to test a ShKAS.

Cheers
TonyE
Click to expand...

Tony, you certainly have the contract details for all this but it makes me wonder now as most of these are observed in the Baltics (if my memory serves me right) and none from Finland (unless that went past me the last 10 years). I got misslead?
 
Finnish sources do not know British made 7,62x54R cartridges dated later than 1917 in use here. If you can find order details it would be interesting. We captured first Shkas's not before December 1939. By 1933 all WWI dated 7,62mm cartridges were abandoned here due to quality problems.

Possibly Finland has sent an inquiry to Kynoch in early 1920's. Around 1920 we purchased WWI cartridges from Germany. Further I have somewhere a copy of 7,62x54R case drawing from a French manufacturer, named for Finland but these neither were ordered.
 
Last edited:
Tmine35 said:
Finnish sources do not know British made 7,62x54R cartridges dated later than 1917 in use here. If you can find order details it would be interesting. We captured first Shkas's not before December 1939. By 1933 all WWI dated 7,62mm cartridges were abandoned here due to quality problems.

Possibly Finland has sent an inquiry to Kynoch in early 1920's. Around 1920 we purchased WWI cartridges from Germany. Further I have somewhere a copy of 7,62x54R case drawing from a French manufacturer, named for Finland but these neither were ordered.
Click to expand...


I'm sure they also did a contract for them in 1940?

Tony
 
Tmine35 said:
Finnish sources do not know British made 7,62x54R cartridges dated later than 1917 in use here. If you can find order details it would be interesting. We captured first Shkas's not before December 1939. By 1933 all WWI dated 7,62mm cartridges were abandoned here due to quality problems.

Possibly Finland has sent an inquiry to Kynoch in early 1920's. Around 1920 we purchased WWI cartridges from Germany. Further I have somewhere a copy of 7,62x54R case drawing from a French manufacturer, named for Finland but these neither were ordered.
Click to expand...

I have been through the Kynoch order books for the 1920s and it is difficult to determine for whom the various contracts were made. Although there are several orders for 7.62x54mm rounds, both ball and tracer, the orders were placed by BSA or Vickers. Presumably this ammunition was to be supplied with either Lewis or Vickers guns from the respective companies. Unfortunately they do not state the end user.

Examples are order Z257 dated 19 May 1924 for 252,000 7.62mm "Red Label" quality "Russian Type" ball and 1260 rounds proof. (presumably with purple stripe) placed by Vickers and Z725, Z291 and Z292, all placed by BSA.

Interestingly, Vickers returned 10,500 rounds of order Z257 due to loose bullets. Kynoch found the necks were too soft so broke down the ammo, rehardened the necks, reloaded them and returned them to Vickers.

I originally was told one of these contracts was for Finland, but apparently that was wrong.

I also have a 7.62x54mm tracer headstamped "K40 7.62". It seems odd that we were making contract ammo at a time of need in the UK so do you know who these were made for?

Regards
Tonye
 
TonyE,
According to my sources Finland purchased in 1940 these ammo only from USA, 2 different W 40 headstamps exist on them. However Finland purchased until 1941 different types of .303 ammo for air force from UK, as well as .55 Boys.
 
Wow, the K40 is a great one I think. Never seen that one showing up from the potential users like Finland or Estonia (or who the user was in the Baltics).
 
I also have a 'K40 7.62' but mine is a ball round. It's loaded with a D-166 profile bullet and I had therefore assumed it was intended for Finland.
Jim
 
Also the bevelled rim of these rounds is very Finnish in appearance.

Regards
TonyE
 
Discussed with a local leading small arms ammo specialist who adviced me as follows:
-1939 Finland ordered from Kynoch 20 million 7,62x54R cartridges, however they never were shipped to Finland. Thus K 40 headstamp was intended for Finland but not delivered.
-K 24 has nothing to do with Finland.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top