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K2 Please Confirm

LANCS

Member
Hello

Please can anyone confirm the existance of any Kynoch K2 (Standish) produced 15mm Besa & 0.55" Boys rounds, I have also found a very vague reference to 0.5" but not sure what type, but it could mean the 0.55" as it refered to the conversion of some machines from 0.303" to 0.5".

According to the factory records they were produced here but I have been unable to confirm their existance.

Many thanks in advance

Regards

Mark
 
I have never seen any K2 produced 15mm BESA, it has all been Greenwood & Batley or Kynoch Witton. They did not produce any .5 Browning and I have not seen any K2 .5 Vickers.

Similarly all the .55 Boys I have seen from Kynoch has all been either Witton or K4. That is not to say K2 did not make any, just that I have not ever seen it. As an example, it was known for many years that RG made Boys but it had never been seen until several case loads came in from Portuguese Macao in the late 1970s.

The other point to consider is that they made cases for loading at the main Kynoch plant or elsewhere, since there was a great deal of component movement during the war. The only way to confirm this would be to find one of these calibres loaded by say Kynoch Witton but with a "2" impressed between the fireholes inside the case.

To the best of my knowledge K2 only ever loaded .303 inch ammunition.

What factory records have you seen? i would be very interested to see them.

Regards
Tonye
 
Sorry, forgot about the 20mm Hispanos (as i don't really collect them)

As well as ball, they seem to have made mainly special purpose .303 inch (GII, GIII, WI etc.) so perhaps that together with the Hispano suggests they were dedicated to making Air Service ammo.

Cheers
tonye
 
Hi

They produced 7.92mm BESA at Standish as I have a AP & Tracer rounds, I asume ball must be out there as well. On the IAA forum there is a reference to 15mm BESA being produced at Standish in WG IZ.

According to the records,

The bullet shops equiped to produce 0.303", 7.92mm, 0.55", 15mm

The case shops equiped to produce 0.303", 7.92mm, 0.55", 15mm & 20mm

The caps dept equiped to produce 0.303", 7.92mm, 0.55", 15mm & 20mm

The FT dept equiped to produce 0.303" in large quantities, 7.92mm, 0.55" & 15mm

The loading field was equiped to load 0.303", 7.92mm, 0.55", 15mm & 20mm

The proof range was equiped to test 0.303", 7.92mm, 0.55" & 15mm (some testing was done at Holcombe Brook Range)

There is a reference to producing 20mm Steel cases but was canceled in Sept 1944 after spending 11,939 of a 80,000 budget.

As well as producing on site extra components/blanks were brought in from Kiddeminster & Yeading as well as supplying parts out to other factories.

Kings Norton supplied blank brass strip and cups to Standish.

Standish was also part of the Goverments Strategic Reserve with machines from here and other factories being stored in buildings not being used by the post war tennants probably into the late 50's early 60's, Heinz were contracted by the MoS to maintain the site and machinery and could be asked to vacate at a moments notice with ammunition production being resumed within a month.

The cost of the factory was to be shared between the MoS, RAF & RN which was estimated to cost approx 1.1 million not including the cost of the land, later revised to 1.5 million including 31,800 for the cutting and cupping plant at Kings Norton.

Initial production voulumes were expected to be approx 2.73 millon rounds per week of all types, later revised to 6.94 million per 94 hr week - double shift.

ICI left the site on 31/03/1946 after completeing breakdown of ammunition and transfering of machinery in/out of the site.

Hope this was of intrest

Regards

Mark
 
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Hi Lancs,

Yes, they did make 15mm BESA, as I have a Mk I APT round with the headstamp K2 43 IZ WG. Haven't seen many others, though.

Regards,
Roger.
 
Thanks Roger, I was unaware of K2 making 15mm BESA. I only have K and GB made rounds. (I an still looking for a Parker Hale headstamped drill round!)

Lancs - exactly what do the records say about receiving brass strip and cups from Kings Norton? KN Metals Co. was long gone by WW2 but the factory was still there, although I don't know who owned it. I don't think it was still operated by ICI Kynoch but if K2 were receiving strip then the old KN rolling mill must still have been working.

Regards
TonyE
 
Lancs - exactly what do the records say about receiving brass strip and cups from Kings Norton? KN Metals Co. was long gone by WW2 but the factory was still there, although I don't know who owned it. I don't think it was still operated by ICI Kynoch but if K2 were receiving strip then the old KN rolling mill must still have been working.

Regards
TonyE

The MoS made available to ICI a building at Kings Norton for the production of Cups and blank strip, the budget for which was 31,800 including machinery, buildings and modifications).

Due to increased volumes in 1942 at KN some space (10,000 sqft) at the Triplex factory across the way was made available for the unpacking, inspection and cleaning of imported brass strip to prevent the clogging up of KN and thus reducing production.

20mm strip was produced at Flume Street ICI Aston works than transported to KN then shipped to Standish, the machinery was later moved in 1943 from Aston to KN to cut down on transport etc.

It would appear the rolling mills were not in use and blank strip was brought into the site for processing/cupping.

Hope this clears things up a bit

Did ICI Metals Group not use the mills for a while after closure of KN and later set up a aluminium/radiator tube factory at KN

Regards

Mark
 
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Hi Mark & Falcon,

Herewith pictures. Despite being APT, the round has a purple annulus!
Regards,
Roger.
15mm WG IZa.jpg15mm WG IZb.jpg
 
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