ID requested of massive Japanese shell plug

[ogreve]

Hi all,

I share with you my latest find, which came to me yesterday (along with two Meiji 43 dated casings, both manufactured at Kure, one being a 12 Pr and the other being a 47x131R Hotchkiss case - nice finds!).
The item in question is a gigantic plug, resembling a big base fuse. The combination of steel and wood most likely means it's an exercise item (or perhaps it's a place holder shipping/storage plug, much like the various bakelite ones).
The length (not measured accurately; a thing which I can do if so desired) is some 16-18 cm tall!
There are some kanji on it; the right hand side column obviously reads "Type 99", but I don't know what the 4 kanji in the left hand side column mean; perhaps a translation of them will ID the item...

Also, the plug is obviously a naval one, but the anchor on the bottom looks weird. It doesn't look like any of the familiar anchor styles as they were in use by the various IJN arsenals....

Does anyone recognise this item, the kanji and/or the used anchor style?

Thanks a lot in advance!
Olafo​

 

[EOD]

I could not find a matching design in artillery base fuzes but getting reminded very much of aircraft bombs.

 

[ogreve]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your post.

That's an interesting thought; I just now checked OpNav 1667 on the section of Navy bombs, along with their fuses and gaines. Indeed it looks highly reminiscent of some of the fuses/gains showed over there. Also, the anchor style is about identical to the style as it is drawn there. I think you're on to something and that indeed it is a practice fuse/gain for Navy bombs...

Particularly the Type 3 electrical gain shows strong resemblance to the item!

I cannot directly ID it positively though, and this being marked Type 99, it would precede the Type 3 gain by 4 years...

Interesting.... Anyone who knows more about it?

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[genkideskan]

EOD is right. All navy shell fuzes have a different design and shape.
This might be what was normally designated a shipping plug. The machined
and knurled steel part are too complicate for a shipping plug.
May be a sort of gauge for the bomb crew or a factory check. The use of wood for a gauge was at least uncommon.
I wonder about the big thread. Needs some more reading.
May be a part for a sea mine?

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Olafo,

Nice find!!!

The first two kanji characters are "dantei", which means tail (of bomb), the other two I'm not sure.......but I'm speculating that it is actually a shipping /transit plug for an aerial bomb tail fuse and not for training purposes. The thread is quite unique and with such a corse thread, it in fact it looks identical for either the Type 99 No 25 (ordinary bomb fuse) or the Type 99 Mk 5 bomb fuse (although I'm not sure if these were tail fuses??). Also I would question the value of a "wood" gaine for training purposes......???? If the actual gaine is in contact with the HE substance, combined with the deep gaine profile (have attached a photo of a Type 15 Tail Bomb Fuse with its gaine to illustrate my point!), it would make sense (well to me anyway) for a shipping plug to retain the profile shape prior to when the actual fuse+gaine is inserted.

Cheers
Drew

BTW - Just checked - the Type 99 No25 was indeed a tail bomb fuse

 

[ogreve]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for the partial translation! That's a great fuse you show there, very nice!

The plot thickens!

I've decided to take the bull by the horns, and went over my tables of kanji markings on ordnance (i.e. http://www.millennics.com/docs/translationofjapaneseordancemarkings.pdf), with the following results:

In table no.17 (fuses), I came across the two kanji you translated for me. Over there, they are interpreted as:

Dan = projectile
Tei = base

Then, I didn't find the other two kanji separated in any of the tables, but they look highly similar to a broken apart single kanji given in table no. 18 (airplane bombs); which is written down as being "Gi Sei", meaning dummy.

I have the same questions up at the Jap Gunboards forum and I'm awaiting translation by a very helpful member who can read kanji. Meanwhile chances are very good that it reads "dummy base fuse", though the possibility of a shipping plug also sounds very likely, with the wood possibly used so as to not have any risk of sparks or so, when it is screwed into a live round/bomb.

The thread does look a lot rougher than the one shown on the real fuse...

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[Slick]

Olafo

Dug out the U.S.N.B.D on Japanese ammo. Here's a page listing an assortment of fuzes. This item you have may just be a piece of a fuze. Maybe part of the Type 13 Base fuze.

Rick

 

[EOD]

Wheres Mr Fuze when you need him?

 

[Slick]

Wheres Mr Fuze when you need him?

Fer sure. Maybe he's still in bed.:wink:

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

type 13 Mk.? base fuze;

At first I thought it was a dummy chemical horn for a sea mine. Then when the last post showing the different fuzes was posted, it appears to me, to be the last fuze shown. But remember, I have low vision.
Regards,
John

 

[JCB99]

Toyokawa Naval Base mark.

Hello all.
Olafo, hope things are well with you. The Anchor mark is Toyokawa Naval base. Ken Elks Book ID's this mark as Toyokawa. (See pic from his book) I hope it's OK to post a pic from his book. I always thought these were either nose or tail shipping plugs for Japanese naval bombs. I have two bomb shipping plugs that are similar but longer. The one has a brass head with wood stem and the other is blackened steel with wood stem. Both have markings I never had translated. I don't have much info on these. I have one 25mm shell and a sea mine chemical horn with the Toyokawa marks. For some reason I don't often see the Toyokawa mark. Most of my Navy stuff has the Kure anchor mark with wavy lines.

Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Jim,

I would also agree with you re the Toyokawa arsenal anchor stamp - it seems that most reference books all display the same arsenal stamps, yet in my experience, the actual stamps are slightly different (look how the top horizontal anchor bar is straight in the diagram, yet the actual stamp one is slightly curved). It seems that the main differentiater are the mid-anchor cross markings /squiggles!

When convenient could you please post your shipping plugs with the kanji?

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[wichitaslumlord]

Hello, I am certain that what you have is shipping plug for a Naval bomb. The shape of the gaine is absolutely Japanese naval. Pictured here is my Japanese naval bomb with its nose shipping plug. My particular bomb has no provisions for a tail fuse. The knurling and holes (spanner wrench holes?) may be to ease removal in the tight confines of the box fins. That is about all I can offer! Best of luck, Pat

 

[ogreve]

Hi,

Thanks for your further input, guys. Some further remarks:

1) Pat: That is one fine bomb you have over there!!! Bomb-wise I only intent to collect fuses (at least for now), as one has got to draw the line somewhere, but that is one lovely sample. Nice plug too! Indeed highly similar to what I have. Nice. Possibly these plugs are even rarer than the real fuses; I certainly haven't seen as many of them as the real thing...

2) Drew: The Toyokawa mark tends to be as drawn by Ken: with a straight bar. Potential deviations seen (with the slight curve you mention) should be individual manufacturing or photographic errors, IMO.

3) Jim: indeed it looks most like the Toyokawa arsenal mark; a thing I had observed too, yet it is slightly different from the Toyokawa marks as seen on e.g. the 25mm cases you mention. The one on the plug is "pointier"; it's a bit difficult to find a better word for it than that. It might be a 'neutral anchor', such as those seen on British export cases (particularly the 47x131R ones) for Japan, or it might just be that this anchor is stamped differently in big size (i.e. on the plug) from what one sees in the smaller stamps (like the ones on the headstamps of the 25mm cases).
Then, on a general note: yes, most of the Navy cases seem to come from Kure. I think that Kure simply manufactured most of them, whereas the other arsenals mainly manufactured other material (much like what one sees with most IJA cases coming from Osaka, and only specific types coming from other arsenals such as Nagoya). The 25mm cases are a good example: those seen (by me, and this is corroborated in Ken's book) are from the same three arsenals/factories, being (from the top of my head) Toyokawa and Dainippon, and unless memory doesn't serve me right, also from Kure or Yokosuka (I'd have to check that against my collection). The same goes for the 20x72 RB Type 99 ammo: headstamps always seem to be from either Toyokawa, Dainippon or Yokosuka (again, IIRC). As for the bigger cases: those seem to come almost exclusively from Kure. I think I've seen only a handful of headstamp pictures of other peoples' collections, with a Maizuru or Sasebo stamp on them...
I'm guessing it all has to do with the various contracts for specific calibres being spread unevenly over the arsenals, and only some of the arsenals taking care of specific items, whereas the other arsenals (and factories, such as Dainippon) focus on other items. For example it seems to me that Dainippon (when speaking about bigger calibres) only (or certainly 'mainly') produced 20x72RB and 25x163 cases. Most fuses seem to be from Toyokawa, etc.
Oh, BTW: I echo the request for seeing pictures of your plugs: they're nice items and I'd love to see what the other ones look like.

Interesting stuff all of this!

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[ogreve]

Hi all,

A thing I forgot to write: At the Gunboards the kanji were translated. They are: 九九式 弾底模栓 and they translate to "Type 99 round base imitation plug". Definitely a shipment/storage plug then....

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[JCB99]

Bomb nose plugs

Here are my two plugs. One is brass with an incomplete anchor stamp and an incomplete character mark. There is also a navy acceptance mark. It has ink stamp markings on the wood. The other is blackened steel with a very faint anchor mark. It has the Navy acceptance mark. It also has black characters on the wood but is very difficult to read. My camera isn't capturing the detail well on these.

Olafo, I have to agree. I don't have this shorter base bomb plug but I do remember at least one floated through eBay in the good old days. I saved a picture of it. Sometimes the best reference is a good picture. I agree, sometimes the shipping plugs are rarer than the fuzes themselves!

Pat, It sounds a bit gay but I have to say I love your big bomb!! SELL IT TO ME....!!!!

Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com

 

[wichitaslumlord]

Jim, I will trade it pound for pound for Japanese items in your collection ( I get to pick the items!) Pat :wink: