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ID request: 4" or 4.7" British/Japanese APHE projectile?

O

ogreve

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Well, from my Japanese source I again have the option of acquiring some old projectiles (3 in total this time).
Subject of this ID request is a tall APHE "common pointed" projectile that to me seems to look like it's of British manufacture (or manufacture based on a British model), but hey, I may be wrong. :p

The shape and base looks a lot like a 6Pr APHE common pointed projectile, but... it's MUCH taller than that! The driving band looks like the Nordenfelt style driving bands. The given dimensions are:
Length: 36cm
Diameter: 11.5cm
Weight: 13.5 KG

Now... I did some checking up on line, and at the following sites I found two close potential matches):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4.7_inch_Mk_V_naval_gun
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_47-40_mk1.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_4-40_mk8.htm

Seemingly the Japanese used at least the 4" and 4.7" guns, for which ammunition was manufactured by (at least) EOC back then.

Now... the quoted calibre suggest a calibre of 4.5", but it is quite possible that it was measured on the driving band.

The above pages give a quoted weight of 14.06 KG for the 4" CPC projectile. The 4.7" CPC has a quoted weight of 20.4 KG. MUCH heavier than the given weight for the projectile at hand...

It seems to me that the 4" one is a good possibility.

Does anyone recognise it as such (or as something else)?

Also: I don't see any markings. This might suggest export. Does someone know what markings would have appeared on an export one, vs. a British used one?

Cheers,
Olafo

unknown_4_7_inch_projectile_4.jpgunknown_4_7_inch_projectile_5.jpgunknown_4_7_inch_projectile_1.jpgunknown_4_7_inch_projectile_3.jpgunknown_4_7_inch_projectile_2.jpg
 
band looks 4in rather than 4.7in might be worth doing a search on here to get some pictures.
 
Thanks,

I actually did try searching for 4" posts, but it is not easy to do so (or I'm doing something wrong); the issue resides in the keywords. Searching for 4" doesn't work; searching for 4in is equally fruitless; searching for "4 inch" gives 4 pages of results, but... most of them are about stuff that's "4 inch" tall, not wide. :p
Only some 4-5 threads were really about 4" items; one US, 2 about cases and 1-2 about other types of projectiles....:(
Possibly the best info I found, was that this line of projectiles is mentioned to be well covered by several British treatises on ammo.
Can anyone perhaps post some of the relevant pages (if allowed) and/or does anyone have some pictures of UK manufactured 4" projectiles, particularly of the APHE kind (but other kinds are also welcome, as the driving bands may be the same kind)?

Cheers,
Olafo
 
Hi,

I'm bumping this...... Does anyone have some pictures of British 4" projectiles?
I'd be interested in seeing both British used version, as well as British export versions... I couldn't find what I'm looking for elsewhere on BOCN...

Cheers,
Olafo
 
try a look at naval practice posted 13th July last or the one before in projectiles section, shows some practice ones in various cal.s
 
Thanks!
With some effort I tracked down this thread: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/47826-naval-practice
I misinterpretted your "last or before" to be threads, but I assume you're referring to years ;)
Hence I was looking around 13th July 2010, but found it in 2009! :p
Either way, your post is really helpful: the shown 4" projectile appears to have EXACTLY the same style driving band, as opposed to the 4.5" and 4.7" ones!
That then certainly already strengthens my assumption that it's a 4" projectile!
Now then... Can you tell me if your 4" projectile(s) has(/have) any markings on them anywhere? Possibly on the driving band?

Cheers,
Olafo
 
Sh0t and shell follow the Brirish tradition of QF marked on the body, SL marked on the base. I cant recall any British service projectiles with stampings on the bands.
 
Hi,

Thanks; in the end, we'll never know, unfortunately... It was sold for a lot of money to someone else. Bummer, I would have liked it.
A friend of mine sent me some pictures of something I hadn't checked up on myself: 4.7" Japanese projectiles from OpNav 30-3M. It looks a lot like the shown APHE practice kind. The dimensions are way off though, and a Japanese Showa era projectile would have had marking on the driving band. I think chances are very good that this one was indeed an early Japanese one (4", probably), but the price was MUCH to high to try and best it on the odd chance that indeed it is Japanese (used)...

Cheers,
Olafo
 
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