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help woth more .303 please

P

peashooter

BOCN Supporter
help with more .303 please

I have a few more .303 rounds I need some info on please if anyone can help me

1st photo is a US.17 VII head stamp with a black bullet with a flat tip
2nd photo is the same round with a mk7 and a Mk2 round for comparison
3rd photo is a round nosed bullet with a dimple in the end head stamp is 303 British "poss Hunting round??"
4th photo is a GB II C headstamp but the bullet has a strange ring on top of the bullet, I have a few Mk2 bullets but non have this what looks like an inserted bit in the end, and even though it has the C for cordite when you shake the round it sounds like a nitro round does when you shake that.

thanks


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The US 17 with the blackened bullet is a French loaded AP. The flat tip was thought to give a better chance that the core would penetrate and the bullet not glance off. The USC Co. made contract ammo was of poor quality so large amounts were supplied to the French for breaking down and re-loading. A magnet should confirm that it is AP. In the UK much of it was converted to blank.

I think your third picture is a commercial load. The headstamp of just "303 BRITISH" was used by Remington quite early on.

The fourth round with the ring mark is a normal Mark II ball. I think the mark was made by the bullet seating die when it was loaded. I have a couple that are similarly marked.

Regards
TonyE
 
Thanks Tony, Would you mind if I just asked a question about the right hand round in the 2nd picture this has a head stamp of KN II C and it has the two darkened bands all the way around with the bottom band being darker is this a MkII match cartridge

thanks
Richard.
 
I cannot be absolutely certain but I would say that it certainly looks like a match cartridge.

Regards
tonyE
 
Hi Richard, i have just found a refence to it in an old NRA mag writtern by a Ted molyneux and yes its a MkII cordite ball match round
Andy
 
Hi Richard,

The Mk.II Ball round was introduced in 1893, but the first year that the NRA asked for the cases of .303" ammunition supplied for the Bisley Meeting to be specially marked was 1897. In 1899, Mk.IV ammunition was supplied, but this was withdrawn because of various problems with it, and it was replaced by Mk.II ammunition from the NRA's own stock (which would not have been marked, as far as I know).

Mk.VI ball was approved in 1904, and was issued for that year's meeting, so your cartridge was issued in either 1897, 1898, or 1900-1903.

Unless anyone can come up with a dated packet containing these rounds, we may never know the exact date of issue.

Your cartridge with the dimple on its nose is a sporting round; I have come across several of these at various times, usually loaded in Canadian cases.

Regards,
Roger.
 
Thanks Roger,

I have been looking at the MkII & MkVI bullet in Temples identfication manual and I cant see any difference they are both "RNS with C-N Envelope with Lead/Antimony (98/2) with canulure near base" what is the difference???

Richard
 
The difference is in the envelope thickness. The Mark II was re-introduced after the hollow point Marks IV and V were outlawed around 1899 and the Mark VI then introduced in 1904. The envelope of the Mark VI is noticeably thinner, presumably as an economy measure to save on the more expensive cupro-nickel.

Having said that, the last issues of Mark V from Woolwich were in the 1902/3 financial year when nearly six million rounds were issued for use in Somaliland. Apparently "savage" enemies were not considered to be covered by the Hague and St.Petersburg Conventions.

Regards
TonyE
 
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