Help with identification

[peashooter]

Can anyone help with identifying some rounds I have been given, I will get some photo's up soon but here are dimensions

2 cases -
Case rim - 12.10mm & 12.15mm - Semi-rimmed
Case base - 11.30mm both
Case Lenght - 50.80mm & 50.90mm
Shoulder dia. - 10.60mm both
Small round faced boxer type primers un-fired.

Bullet Dia. - 6.60mm
Bullet lenghts - 32.50mm all 4 of them
Cupro-nickle lead core pionted flat base

I had assumed they were 6.5mm carcano but the sizes dont match can anyone help

thanks
Richard.

 

[archmoco]

6.5 Arisaka cartridge?

Richard,

Sound like a 6.5 Arisaka cartridge? Well at least the measurements are the same as a cartridge I have and that's what I think it is.

Regards
Michael

Can anyone help with identifying some rounds I have been given, I will get some photo's up soon but here are dimensions

2 cases -
Case rim - 12.10mm & 12.15mm - Semi-rimmed
Case base - 11.30mm both
Case Lenght - 50.80mm & 50.90mm
Shoulder dia. - 10.60mm both
Small round faced berdan type primers un-fired.

Bullet Dia. - 6.60mm
Bullet lenghts - 32.50mm all 4 of them
Cupro-nickle lead core pionted flat base

I had assumed they were 6.5mm carcano but the sizes dont match can anyone help

thanks
Richard.

 

[peashooter]

do yours have a boxer primer though, I would have thought a military cartridge would have a berdan type primer??

Richard.

 

[archmoco]

Richard,

I've only one, identical to photo in link below. No headstamp. I tried taking the projectile out....now got a couple of scratches on bullet :crossedlips:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5x50mm_Arisaka


Michael

 

[V40]

Michael,
I am not really good with other countries cartridges but using a book I have, it comes out as a Arisaka round (6.5 x 50.8mm) according to this book.

I do know one thing for sure, the Arisaka round was also used in Vietnam by the VM/VC (Viet Mihn and the Vietcong later) until the Russians and the Chinese began sending them Mosign-Nagant sniper rifles later in the early to mid sixty's.

Hope it helps you out.

Mark
V40

 

[TonyE]

Arisaka

Peashooter - the dimensions you give match the 6.5 x 50SR Arisaka Type 38 round, the Carcano was never issued with spitzer bullets. In your first post you say they have Berdan primers, which would be correct, but in Post #3 you seem to infer that your rounds have Boxer primers. Which do they have?

The Arisaka has a slightly convex head and the primer of WW2 types usually has a three position primer stake without headstamp. Earlier Type 38 have two opposed primer stakes or none at all. Communist Chinese production have headstamps and a green neck seal.

Picture is typical Type 38.

Regards
TonyE

 

[peashooter]

Sorry Tony my mistake on the 1st post the primer is a single hole boxer type, my rounds are just like the photo of type 38. My rounds have no head stamp and have no primer stakes at all the primer is a small rifle sized primer and is slightly domed

Richard.

 

[TonyE]

Boxer primed Arisaka

Can you post a picture of the base of your round please? Japanese production was all Berdan primed.

Cheers
TonyE

 

[peashooter]

Yes here goes.

 

[TonyE]

6.5 Arisaka

They look like typical Japanese early Type 38 rounds, without the thickened bullet envelope. It has not been proven for certain, but the increase in the number of primer stakes seems to be progressive, almost equivalent to "marks".

Are you absolutely sure those are Boxer primed? In some cases the forming of the Berdan anvil creates a dimple on the inside of the case that can look like a single hole Boxer primer when viewed from the case neck.

Have a closer look or better still, section one.

Regards
TonyE

 

[peashooter]

I will section 1 and get back to you

cheers

 

[peashooter]

Yes you were correct Tony they have a berdan primer, I see what you mean about the deep dimple that was what I could see so I thought it had a boxer type primer. Is there any way of dateing or the manufacturer with out a head stamp.

Richard.

 

[TonyE]

Dating

Japanese rounds are notoriously difficult to date once they are removed from their packet. However, those with no primer crimp date from before about 1915, as about this date the bullet jacket walls were thickened and the overall bullet length increased from 1.260" to 1.266" to maintain the same weight. It is believed this was done to increase long range stability.

If you obtained those rounds in the UK then it is quite likely that they were part of the rifles and ammunition obtained from Japan in late 1914/early 1915 for use by British forces. Although Japan supplied some 22 million sets of components that were loaded by Kings Norton Metals Co., it is known that they also supplied loaded rounds and drill cartridges.

Regards
TonyE

 

[peashooter]

Many thanks,

Richard.