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help with .303 canandian drill round please

peashooter

BOCN Supporter
Can anyone help with a Canadian drill round please.

Head stamp - DAC "C with arrow in" 40 LP U

Now I know - Dominion Arsenal, Quebec, Canada. Year is 1940 & U is Dummy

I know they made Drill, D Mk 6 and D Mk 9, Drill D 1942 (Canadian Pattern) so which is it and what is LP


Cheers

Richard.
 
Can anyone help with a Canadian drill round please.

Head stamp - DAC "C with arrow in" 40 LP U

Now I know - Dominion Arsenal, Quebec, Canada. Year is 1940 & U is Dummy

I know they made Drill, D Mk 6 and D Mk 9, Drill D 1942 (Canadian Pattern) so which is it and what is LP


Cheers

Richard.

I'm not too sure on the MK but I think 'LP' is local pattern. Also 'U', I think that is for Inspectors round

Regards
Michael
 
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Most drill rounds were made from "seconds" cases and may have mis-stamped headstamps or headstamps from the original "loadings" until the case failed to pass inspection and were made into drill rounds or blanks.

could the "LP" be a "GP" just not stamped well?

Could you photo the headstamp?

Others more knowledgeable will pipe up I'm sure...
 
Hi,

Not 100% sure but I think LP stand for "Limited Procurement".

Cheers.
FCAT.
 
U-lp

Archmoco is right. The Canadian U-LP is "Inspectors', Local Pattern".

It differs from the official U Mark V which was the service dummy at the time in a number of ways. It uses a tinned ordinary case, not a white metal one, has four holes in the case like a drill round and an empty cap chamber instead of a blind one without anvil or fire holes.

There are other examples of "Local Pattern" items, mostly drill rounds. I have a Canadian .55 Drill made of cast aluminium headstamped "C DA DI LP", i.e. Drill Mark I Local Pattern.

Another example I have of a local Pattern round is the Australian .303 drill made by Die casters with a pot metal body and a steel head. Although not headstamped these are Drill Local Pattern Mark I.

There are also many rounds specific to India which have "I.P.", India Pattern in the nomenclature.

Regards
Tonye
 
Hi TonyE,

I thought "U" meant dummy??
Sorry... can not find anything on LP on my ref's...
Cheers
FCAT.

Cart 303in general, 1953 Page 14.jpgCart 303in General 1953, page15.jpg
 
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U

Yes, "U" does mean Dummy. I am not sure what your question is, but the term "Dummy" in British and Commonwealth nomenclature (post 1926) means an inert round that replicates the live service store in terms of weight and shape. It is to be used by armourers and inspectors (as your document shows) for the inspection and adjustment of weapons.

The correct nomenclature for the U Mark V was "Cartridge S.A. Dummy .303 inch Inspectors U Mark V." In the UK such rounds are colloquially refered to simply as "Inspectors".

Modern British nomenclature has been simplified to "Round, Inspection, Lxxxx".

Rounds that were intended purely for training troops in the handling of their weapons are Drill rounds and were coded "D". They did not need to replicate live rounds and in fact were made to be as distinguishable as possible from them in order to avoid accidents.

Regards
TonyE
 
OK... I think I get what you are trying to say... missread your last post.
Sorry, did not wanted to start an argument... It's kinda late here... lol
Going :tinysmile_sleep_t:

Thank for your clarification...
Cheers.
FCAT.
 
Tony Mine does not have any holes in it?

Richard.
 

Attachments

  • 303 inspectors round canadian local pattern.jpg
    303 inspectors round canadian local pattern.jpg
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U-lp

I am tempted to say "If you know a better 'ole..."

The Canadian U-LP seems to have come with and without holes in the case. I cannot remember whether mine has holes or not, I will check and report back.

Temple in his Part 3 certainly records it as with holes.

Regards
tonyE
 
Article etc

Inevitably, after saying I have the article already scanned I cannot find it!

I will rescan it tomorrow and get it off to you. Book 2 on the .303 is on hold at the moment as I need to get out to the US to check a couple of large collections. It will probably be done towards the end of the year.

Regards
TonyE
 
.303 British Canadian Drill Rounds

Hi Guys,

I have 15 WW2 Canadian Drill Rounds similar to these as well (two differnet types). None of which have any drill holes on the cases' sides. However, they all have CN or chrome plated cases with three long and equally spaced indents running along the length of the cases' side. All appear to have the CN FMJ bullet.

3 of these rounds have red paint in these case indents and in their primer wells. I found out somewhere on the internet that these are Royal Canadian Air Force Drill Rounds.

I have 13 of these similar to the ones above except they do not have any of the red paint.

All are headstamped CAC-broadarrow 1944 or 1942 (or mixture thereof). I'm unable to confirm headstamp info at this time as I'm away from home on Christmas/New Years Holidays. Can confirm when I get back home though.

I might be able to post some pics at a later date with some assistance of members (never done before).

I also have 5 post WW1 Drill Rounds (1919, 1922, 1923). There similar in design (some or all have signs of red paint). Unfortuneately these have been polished. Cases show some eveidence of tin coating.

I hope this is of some help to you.

Send me a PM if you wish pics when I get back home.

Cheers and all the best!

Keyan (kajn65)
 
Dummy v. Drill rounds

kajn65 - the rounds you have are drill rounds as you say, not inspectors' rounds like the ones under discussion. See my previous post on the difference. As a rule of thumb, anything with flutes in the case is a drill round, not a dummy.

Drill rounds are notoriously difficult to identify exactly, as apart from the dozen or so officially adopted types there is a plethora of expedient, Local Pattern and unofficial types that found their way into service.

From your description, the WW2 dated rounds are "Cartridge S.A. Drill D.1942 Canadian Pattern" (I presume the headstamp you quote was a typo and it should be "DAC" and not "CAC"? "CAC is New Zealand only at that date.)

Those dated post WWI are "Cartridge S.A. Dummy Drill .303-inch Mark VI (Canadian Pattern)" and were introduced around 1919.

As you will notice, before the new nomenclature was introduced in 1927, what we now call drill rounds were titled "Dummy Drill" and inspectors' dummies were "Dummy Inspectors".

Just to confuse, you understand....!

Regards
TonyE
 
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WW2 Canadian Drill Rounds

Hi TonyE,

Yes, that was a typo on my part. It should have been "DAC" not "CAC" as I indicated. My appologies.

As to your last part ... yes, I do understand.

I also have some WW2 British undated drill rounds from Royal Labratories. One is R L VI*, most are R L VI. I have 2 others are R L Z, DMkVII (if I remember correctly). I'd have to be home to double check all my headstampings, both Canadian and my British.

Would you know the differences between my three different WW2 British Drill rounds from Royal Labratories spec-wise? I don't see any difference.

Rgs...Keyan (kajn65)
 
RL Drill rounds

Post the details and I wil do my best to ID them for you.

Regards
TonyE
 
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