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Help in ID a 2cm German anti aircraft Round

K

Kanalinseln Heer

Member
Hi all,

After my recent episode with the 2cm FLAK round I dug up and was destroyed, I decided to buy a inert round for my display.

It arrived today and sadly looks NOTHING like the round I dug out.

The casing is about 4 inches long and the base is stamped '21c and what looks like 33' although its hard to make out as its quite badly corroded.
No waffenamp stamp is at all visible.

The projectile is marked 'dov 7K 43' 115g which I assume to be the weight.

This was sold to me by a dealer who told me that it was found in Dunkirk and is a German anti aircraft round from WW2.

So:
It looks nothing like the 2cm FLAK round I dug out previously and doesnt have a waffenamp stamp which the other one did.
Also I have to admit that the projectile looks 'out of place' compared to the casing, it just does'nt look right although am not an expert on ammo.

Can anyone tell me what the round is or if I have been dry bummed ? :cry::cry::cry:

I can post or send a pic if required.

Cheers guys.
I can post or send anyone a pic if required!
 
Hello KH if you can put a photo on as well ,as it will also help with a positive id
 
Well ,you are right its not a flak round ,but it is German, MG151/20 aircraft cannon.
Looks like a good case/projectile match.

cheers
Bob
 
Hello,

KAHU1 is quite right, MG 151/20 it is. To be more specific, it is a round fitted with an armourpiercing projectile.

a) Iff there are any remains of blue paint on or near the projo's tip, your round is of the armourpiercing incendiary type.
b) Any remains of yellow paint near the tip and your round is of the armourpiercing highexplosive type.
c) Any remains of either: yellow, red or white paint directly above the driving belt would indicate a tracer having been fitted.
d) Any remains of both green and yellow paint near the tip would indicate a projectile with highexplosive content and selfdestruct mechanism.

(iff c and/or d are found to be in place, drop me a line, desperately looking for those for my own collection :tinysmile_hmm_t: ).

Another way of determining would be to have a look at the base screw/fuze, however any type could have been retrofitted, so this is by no means a surefire way for making a positive ID unless you're certain srew nd projo were found as one piece together.

As for the differences to the round you found on the beach:

the FlaK round you dug up would seem to have an 138 mm long casing which had a belt around the lower part, this would make it a round for either FlaK 30 or FlaK 38.
It might however (the picture is not very clear) have a 110 mm long casing wit a rebated rim, this would make it a round for the FlaK 28 (Oerlikon). The German armed forces had bought quite a number of these weapons and also used (an even larger amount) captured stock. Casings for it excist in both brass and steel.

The casing on your current round is 82 mm in lenght and is unbelted. Judging by the picture of the round on the beach, I would say it is of a high explosive(incendiary) design equipped with an impactfuze on the nose of the projo.

In short: two entirely different rounds for (any way) two entirely different weapons.

regards,

Menno.
 
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Astoinshing..you guys know your sh*t.....lol

So its not a FLAK38 round then...bollocks! I paid a tenner for it...sounds okay?


It has some very pale blue paint underneath the 'ring' where it sits into the casing if that helps?

So when you say MG151, its from an actual German aircraft then?? What type of aircraft would that be?

I would be over the moon to swap it for a round closer to the one I dug out if anyone would do a swap?...my round plus cash ?


The round I dug out was indeed 138mm in length, had a shallow casing, steel coated with copper, and big nose fuse.....

Never knew ordnance was so complicated...thats why I joined the Intelligence Corps aha haha ha
 
Mg151/20MM is the cannon,the type of aircraft fitted with this cannon could be Me109 , FW190,etc..

cheers
Bob
 
A couple of photos from the Ammo Photo Gallery on my website, showing 20mm ammo up to 1945:

20mm1.jpg

20x70RB (Becker), 20x72RB (Oerlikon FF - aka IJN Type 99-1), 20x80RB (German MG-FF/M), 20x82 (Mauser MG 151/20), 20x94 (IJA Ho-5), 20x99R (ShVAK), 20x101RB (Oerlikon FFL- aka IJN Type 99-2), 20x105B (Solothurn S18-350), 20x105 (German MG 204), 20x110RB (Oerlikon FFS and HS.7, H.S.9 variants), 20x110 (HS.404 - Hispano)

20mm2.jpg

20x110 (HS.404), 20x113 (Lahti L34), 20x120 (Madsen), 20x125 (IJA Type 97; and Ho-1, Ho-3 a/c guns), 20x138B ('Long Solothurn' used in FlaK/KwK 30 and 38), 20x139 (Swiss FMK: drill), 20x142 (IJA Type 98), 20x144R (Bofors m/32)
​
The standard German Flak gun ammo was the 20x138B. The standard German 20mm aircraft gun ammo was the 20x80RB (early war), largely replaced by the 20x82 later on.

The standard RAF 20mm aircraft gun was the 20x110 Hispano. Everybody used the 20x110RB Oerlikon as an AA gun (especially on board ships).
 
Hi KH,
Have a look at the following thread as there are pictures of quite a few 2cm German WW2 cannon rounds, to compare yours to. It sounds from you description that you have a API Ph filled round this had a blue ring just bellow the projectile nose and a blue stencilled Ph as well as the fill weight marked as well. Not a bad price to pay at all, best regards Weasel
www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/77364-German-aircraft-rounds
 
Cheers guys for all the info....never knew there was so many variations on 20mm rounds!!!

At least its German, and I paid a fair price for it, just a wee bit disappointed that it isnt the same round that I dug out.

I'll just need to keep looking for one, really want the exact same round with the Waffenamp stamp and the silver nose fuse.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Hi KH.I have a 20X138B,brass case,headstamps are,,,,15c, P94, (very tiny)Wa, 38,sadly no projectile,
Cheers,
Don,
 
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