Gulf War Shell case,

[beihan62]

During the Gulf war a friend at work lived in Iraq(part of the diplomatic community),at this particular time she was in the back of a truck being evacuated,there were trucks carrying loads of empty shell cases going past,one fell off and was duly retrieved by her and came to uk via diplomatic transport,I have seen this rather large shell and have offered to try to identify it,unfortunatly I cannot as yet post a pic,these are the measurements she gave me of said shell,length,,,842mm, neck diameter,,,,142mm, base diameter,,,183mm,the headstamps are,,,,257,,,,7H,but the 7 of the 7H is actually reversed and is a rightangle rather than a sloping leg,then the number 26,the shell is brass,very heavy,and in very good condition,she said at the time truck loads of the shells were being sent back for reloading,she has no idea as to where it was fired or by who,it is one big shell and damn she wont let me have it at any price,
Any help in identifying this item would be greatly appreciated,
Regards and Thanks,
Don,

 

[ozziammo]

G-Day beihan,

Give or take a couple of millimetres between friends (easy done with a tape measure & a large cart case), it sounds like the cart. is a Russian (or other derived country that made & used them) 130mm X 845mm X 185mmR Field gun.

The headstamp you describe, especially your description of the backward 7 sounds to be Cyrillic style, this also giving it a Eastern block flavour.

However, a pic is worth a ton of my guess work!

Try taking her out for dinner & to a show, then put the hard word on her (for the cart) LOL!

Good Luck.

Regards Ozzi.

 

[HAZORD]

What he said! The only common things that size are 130mm Russian or 152mm Russian. If it is tapered, its the 130mm. Is there a 130 in the middle of the Russian text on the side?

 

[beihan62]

Hi Ozzi,HAZORD,Thanks for the replies,I did question the lady regarding the 142mm,she did confirm that it was 142mm,I guessed at 1mm thick walls would come out at 140mm projectile,but having literaly fallen from the back of a truck it could well be slightly oval,she stated that they were being sent back for reloading,?,at the same time rockets ( US MLRS ?)were being fired over her house towards the front,collecting shells for refilling during a battle,odd?I will try to get more information and measurements and if possible photos,
Many Thanks,
Don,

 

[HAZORD]

With separate loading ammunition, like the 130mm field gun uses, the case mouth will be larger than the caliber. It needs to be as large as the outside diameter of the rotating bands since the projectile is rammed first and the rear of the chamber needs to be that big so the bands can enter it. The case mouth needs to fit fairly close in diameter so it doesn't split when fired. Since the 130mm is a high velocity Gun, instead of a howitzer, it needs a big band to spin the projo up, so the band is large in diameter. A 140mm case mouth for a 130mm projo body diameter isn't bad at all. That leaves only 5mm per side for the band, and a 5mm band isn't much for a gun that size.

 

[steve rb]

This one :

 

[Falcon]

I have measured a 130mm case before. The mouth is indeed opver 130mm. I remember the fired one that I measured being 145mm across the mouth.

 

[beihan62]

Thanks Guys,it looks like you have nailed it,thanks for the pic Steve,that looks like the shell in question,it must have been a beast to load and at a guess ear defenders would be needed around that when it went off,
Once again many thanks for your help,
Regards,
Don,

 

[US-Subs]

 

[Falcon]

I agree with beihan62 that it seems odd that the Iraqis would be driving truckloads of cases back from the front line during action. This uses up valuable transport and manpower who would surely have been wanted at the front.

 

[EOD]

That was not unusual during many conflicts. Trucks came in with new ammo and took back what ever was not needed at the frontline anymore as they would go back empty anyways.

 

[Falcon]

So when this case fell off the truck, did your friend tell whoever was driving her to pull over so she could grab it?

 

[HAZORD]

These cartridge cases are very valuable to the people that own the guns. In the 1980's Israel contracted with the company that I worked for (Norris Industries) to purchase 2,000 American made cases for use in their captured guns. They are very large cases and the guns are very strategic due to their potential range.

 

[beihan62]

Hi Falcon,Yes,,,daft as it sounds I believe that is just what she did,it was I understand a slow moving convoy of just a few vehicles and she saw the shell fall from the back of the truck and it crossed her mind that it would make a nice souvenier,hence one very large shell stood by the door in her cottage,I will "probe"for more details,date,location etc,I am sure it will make interesting reading,
Cheers,
Don,

 

[Falcon]

I was thinking that it wouldn't have made such a good souvenir had the convoy been stopped by Iraqi forces. I can quite easily see them accusing you of theft of classified military material for espionage purposes. They would have loved to broadcast footage around the world of a British diplomat arrested for spying, no matter how far-fetched the charges were.

HAZORD: What were the headstamps on the US made cases?

 

[HAZORD]

I probably have the only one in the U.S., and since it was pulled from production it doesn't have a headstamp. All of their other items are stamped NOR or NIV.