German case

[Andysarmoury]

Hi Could anybody help out i was given this yesterday its 57mm X 250mm case the head stamp is BERNDORF and dated 1894 i think its German but has anybody got any pics of a complete round or drawings please.
Cheers
Andy

 

[blu97]

Only found out that it comes from Austria.

 

[waffenamt]

Real nice piece Andy!

best

waff

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi I still have had no luck finding out anymore about this case other then it was made in Austria can anybody help.
Andy

 

[Quatermass]

Only reference to 57x230R i've got is a 5.7cm Grunson L/25 quick fire gun.

there was also a French version of the gun 'Kanon a tir rapide Granson de 5.7cm 25 calibres'

Can't help any more than that i'm afraid.

Quatermass.

 

[Andysarmoury]

Thanks Q the only thing i have found is this

it was decided to utilize weapons from the stock of old Belgian 5.7cm Maxim-Nordenfelt casemate cannons (also identified as Sokol cannons; manufactured c.1888). These weapon had been utilized in open mountings on trucks by the Germans following Cambrai as anti-tank artillery. They were quite capable of penetrating all known armor out to 2,000 meters (recall that the greatest armor thickness fielded by the Allies was between 16mm to 19.5mm; this could be defeated even by the 13mm Mauser Tank-Gewehr M1918 anti-tank rifle!). Another asset of the cannon was its low recoil, only 150mm. The original request for two cannons was dropped to one, the 5.7cm cannon being mounted in the front of the A7V. Two different mounting styles for the cannon were to be seen on production A7Vs. The first was the trestle mounting, developed by the Artillery Testing Commission. The cannon was set into the mantlet, with a balance weight, and two hand wheels were used for traverse and elevation aiming. Aiming was done via two sights, one inside the tank, the other on the end of the barrel.
Andy

 

[Quatermass]

You may be right Andy, I'd presumed that the A7V and captured British tanks were armed with either Russian or Belgian versions of the 57 x307 R Hotchkiss/Nordenfelt 57mm gun.

Anybody know for sure?

Quatermass.

 

[Andysarmoury]

Hi I still have not had any luck finding a picture of a complete round can anybody help out :sad:
Cheers
Andy

 

[phil12]

57 m/m

Hi ,
This is a loading with a shrapnel box on what looks to be a case similar to Andysarmory's
I don't know the language of the factory dwg !
Ciao
phil

 

[Andysarmoury]

Thanks Phl12 that looks a good drawing and it doesn't even have a driving band a very early shrapnel round they were used the same as a big shotgun cartridge, the language looks German to me.
Thanks again
Andy

 

[phil12]

57m/m

Sorry Andy , for sure it is not german , this dwg comes from the Gvelot factory and they have never worked for Germany . Otherwise it is certainly for eastern of europe , they have worked a lot for Balkans and Russia. If you try this way , you should find a translation
Cheers
Phil

 

[Andysarmoury]

Ok Phil thanks, i will try and find out or dose anybody else know?
Cheers
Andy

 

[thekees]

I only know the next 3 cases matching with the size 57x250r:

Kanon a Tir rapide Gruson de 5,7cm 25 calibres (France)

6 veld 5,7cm Kanone L/25
(Dutch)

5,7cm Gruson'sche L/25 Schnellfeuer-kanon
(German)

 

[Andysarmoury]

Thanks Thekees, it must be the 5,7cm Gruson'sche L/25 Schnellfeuer-kanon
(German)
Cheers
Andy

 

[Dave83]

komplett Round

Hello this should be the complett round of your shell !!!
Realy rare this round i am very happy to have one in my collection !!

Regards David