German 7.92

[kahu1]

Can anyone ID the significance of the colour bands, particularly the double green bands?.







cheers
Bob

 

[orpheus72]

Hi Bob,

The green color band on the projectile is indicating a 'verbessert' patrone. these had only an enhanced powder charge

Um den Anforderungen im Luftkampf besser gerecht werden zu knnen, waren geschosse mit hher mndungsgeschwindigkeiten erforderlich.Dies wurde erreicht, in dem man eine Ladung auf Nitropentabasis verwendete, gegenEnde des Krieges auch Nipolite Pulver.
Bezeichnet wurden solche Patronen mit einem - v - fr verbessert. Das ussereKennzeichen war ein grner Ring um das Geschoss.

The black band on the mouth of the second round is indicating a 'Tropen' patrone. This was a sealant to prevent moisture entering the round.

Durch eine Hlsenmunddichtung aus Lack wurde verhindert dass Feuchtigkeit in das Geschoss eindringen konnte

Never seen a round with 2 green bands on the projectile (and it also isn't noted in any documentation i have...)

 

[Krt7.92]

Bob, can you give the headstamp of the one with the 2 green bands?
Me neither has seen/heard of a round with 2 green bands...

 

[bdgreen]

Regarding the cartridge with 2 green rings on the projectile, Spanish cartridge collectors have been reporting on a number of 'altered' or 'faked' cartridges, in various calibers, showing up in Spain with some of the cartridges in question having multiple green rings on the projectiles or oddly painted projectiles. There is more info if you search on http://www.municion.org/index.html in the forum section. One example shown below is a picture from MUNICION.ORG showing 7.62x51mm cartridges under suspicion.

If this is the situation here then this may explain why there is no info on this loading.

There was also a notice on these in the International Ammunition Association Journal, Issue #489, January/February 2013, page 18.

Brian

 

[kahu1]

Unfortunately i didn't get pics of the Head stamps, these are in anothers collection.
I did wonder if the double band was real, it looked the same as the others.These came out of an older collectors collection so if fake must have been about for a few years.

 

[bdgreen]

kahu1,

If you have the opportunity try to investigate the 2 green ring cartridge further. Such as headstamp and provenance. Maybe something interesting will turn up!

Brian

 

[orpheus72]

brian,

Just read the thread on the spanish forum about the falsifications ( http://www.municion.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2511&start=0& ), and as far as my knowledge of the spanish language permits, they all seem to be fake...

A headstamp of that actual 7.92x57 round with the 2 rings can for sure tell us what the round should be, as almost for all German WWII headstamps it is known what their projectile/type were.

99.9% sure it is a fake too.

Geert.

 

[Dutch]

Gentlemen,

I dont believe this cartridge is a fake

There is always a possibility something went wrong during the production.

In my collection I have several examples.

Rgds
Dutch

 

[orpheus72]

Gentlemen,

I dont believe this cartridge is a fake
There is always a possibility something went wrong during the production.
In my collection I have several examples.

Rgds
Dutch

If all these rounds have a correct headstamp for a 'verbessert' round, it could be a 'production error' , but i've never seen one... also, they just look just too perfect to be an error...

 

[Woozz]

Hi Kahu1 and others,

I am 15 minutes new at the forum and noticed your question. I am a collector of WW2 era German aircraft ammo and I noticed 3 rounds in your pic. The last two I do not recognize/know. The single green line indicate Verbessert (German, meaning improved = higher V0) round and produced only to be used by the Luftwaffe in the MG17

1 = SmK Glimmspur Verbessert
2 = PmK Verbessert fur Tropen (for use in Tropics)
3 = SmK Verbessert
4 = ? (Do have a look at the bottom stamps and colours)
5 = ? (Do have a look at the bottom stamps and colours) Note tge Luftwaffe (in principe) only used brass cartridges in the MGs...

Greetings
Woozz