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Electronic Time Fuze

B

Bellifortis

Well-Known Member
Last night I watched again a repeated documentary about modern german artillerie. They displayed the 155mm "Panzerhaubitze 2000" and it's ammunition and fuzes. There my own question, posted in "Recommend your Favourite Films/Books", regarding the electronic fuze in the 120mm US Mortar system and this 155mm artillery ammunition, was answered. It seems, that this fuzes are just simple electronic time fuzes. But, I have not seen this type of fuze in any collection or display. Since more than a year I am researching the Rheinmetall electric fuze development from 1926 - 1945. The aim at that time was, to develop an electric time fuze, that could be set automatically by a gadget attached to the gun, for AA work. The finally developed fuze, the El.Zt.Z. S/30 was ready by about 1943. It never reached production status because of hitches with the muzzle charging system. The electric bomb-and other electric fuzes were just steps on the way to the automatically charged (at the instant of firing) electric time fuze. I posted a photo of a display of the parts of the El.Zt.Z. S/30 here some time ago, but I do not know of any real fuze in any collection in the world. The manually charged fuze, with a charging key, was developed as an interim solution because of problems with the muzzle charging gear. The El.AZ. and El.AZ. m.B., that usaed the manual charging gear also were only development steps on the way to the electric time fuze. After WW2 the US hired german fuze specialists to continue research in the USA, but, this line of development seems to have stopped around 1950. The more surprised I am, to see a simple, manually charged electronic time fuze now in 2013. The only reason I can imagine is, that it is much cheaper to produce than a mechanical precision product. Since now about 25 years electronic time fuzes are used in commercial blasting operations. Even for fireworks use Disney developed (or bought the patent) for electronic igniters for fireworks shells to be used in their airpressure launching guns. The printed circuit chips in these igniters are just 5mm wide. About 20 years ago I visited a lecture of a Disney engineer at a PGI convention. This engineer told in his lecture, that these electronic igniters, if mass produced, could be sold for the same price as traditional ones, that was about 30 cents at that time. This never became reality, as I expected. I do not know which companies produce these modern electronic time fuzes and I also don't know their performance specifications and price. I expect that Diehl will be one of the manufacturers. Any of your thoughts are most welcome.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 
As I did not recieve any answer to my questions here, I made a search in the net myself. I'm amazed at the huge amount of free information available there. All my questions were answered, mainly through Wikipedia (a really great projekt where so often already I fouind information that I could not find anywhere else). These last 2 days I read through a lots of TM's, development reports, product advertisments, master thesises and Stanags to pick up on 50 years of fuze developments that seem to have passed me by. I'm not in the buisiness, just an interested observer and I don't get paid for my interest. But, if I see anything technical, I like to understand how it works. Just natural human curiosity on which all advancments in mankind base. I'm very much surprised, that nobody here in this specialised Forum came up with any hint. about PIAFS, STANAG 4369, Turbo Generators, Ram Air Alternators and the general technology of inductive setting. If one is interested in fuzes the intersting thing about them is, how they work. As I said before, thank you, I got the answers to my questions already. But, there is one thing I wonder about when looking at the Fuchs Electronics/Reutech-South Africa Inductive Set Time Fuze MTF 01. The air inlet is at the tip of the fuze that travels at a speed of 400 m/sec. What will the ballistic influence be of this construction. In the old Rhlemann/Rheinmetall design of the electric time fuze the small feeler-probe wire protuding from the side of the fuze, reduced the range of the projectile by more than 10%.
Regrds,
Bellifortis.
 
Hallo,
IMHO the electronics realy entered the fuze realm with VT fuzes.
I do not think that ElAZ fuzes were a step to time fuzes since they were impact only.
Since the introduction of the VT fuze the time fuze was used only in projectiles like propaganda or illumination where MT or PTT was enough.
Now when electronics is sturdy enough and cheep to produce it is only reasonable to be implemented in time fuzes.
Try also to look up the 35mm AHEAD AA system.

Bob
 
Nabob said:
Hallo,
IMHO the electronics realy entered the fuze realm with VT fuzes.
I do not think that ElAZ fuzes were a step to time fuzes since they were impact only.
Since the introduction of the VT fuze the time fuze was used only in projectiles like propaganda or illumination where MT or PTT was enough.
Now when electronics is sturdy enough and cheep to produce it is only reasonable to be implemented in time fuzes.
Try also to look up the 35mm AHEAD AA system.

Bob
Click to expand...
Hallo Bob,
you are wrong. The whole electric fuze development was only for one final aim, the electric time fuze and also the, what the americans call, VT fuze. I have been stydying these developments since more than 1 year intensively, especially since so little is known about it. The time fuze El.Zt.Z. S/30 was ready developed during the war, but never entered service. I posted a picture some time ago. I do not know of any real fuze in any collection, also I'm shure very much interested to get hold of one. I'm shure that there are quite a few in US and British military collections, but, nobody showed up with one up till now. If there is any interest I can post the diagrams of the time and VT fuzes developed till 1945. There were about 20 different VT projects worked on during the war by different researchers. Light,sound, infra red, influence and so on. None of these were ready before the war ended. Rheinmetall worked on the influence fuze. An electrically charged projectile, when it came near to the ground or another body in the air was electrically influenced. The fuze sensed this influence and fired through an electric tube. Only a few meters were possible by this system. The US radar based VT fuze was much better. Much more money was made available for its development. The money the germans invested in rocketry the americans invested in VT development. If you invest enough money, you can force results. Also with your second sentence you are wrong. Look at the modern electronic multi option fuzes where VT,Time , impact instantaneous and impact with delay can be chosen by the user.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
 
Nabob said:
Hallo,
IMHO the electronics realy entered the fuze realm with VT fuzes.
I do not think that ElAZ fuzes were a step to time fuzes since they were impact only.
Since the introduction of the VT fuze the time fuze was used only in projectiles like propaganda or illumination where MT or PTT was enough.
Now when electronics is sturdy enough and cheep to produce it is only reasonable to be implemented in time fuzes.
Try also to look up the 35mm AHEAD AA system.

Bob
Click to expand...

Hallo Bob,
thank you for the tip about the 35mm ahead AA system. There is a very nice advertisment video I found on U-tube. This is exactly what Rheinmetall was working for already starting in 1926, a muzzle charged time fuze. At that time only RC-delay circuits were possible, so the fuze had to be charged with quite a large amount of electricity. Between 1943 and 1945 inductive charging of the fuze with electricity (about 200 V were needed) was investigated at the Rheinmetall fuze laboratory in Breslau. Attached is a page of the doctoral thesis of Werner Hackenberg from 1950. Look at the right bottom corner, the test was done in May 1944. Hackenberg was working on his doctoral thesis "Inductive charging of electric fuzes" at Breslau University. His doctoral father was Professor Boening, but the war was lost before he could finish. He then finished his doctoral thesis at Muenich University in 1950. It took more than 60 years and the advancement of digital science for this project to be finally realised.
regards,
Bellifortis.
 

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Hi Bob,
thank you for the document tip off at Lexpev's. Most people, also here in Germany, don't know that the muzzle charged electric time fuze was the reason for developing electric fuzes (a system like you see now in the 35mm fortward AA). Up till the end of the war this result was not reached. All other fuzes, like the electric bomb fuzes which are most widely known were just a side line production with which money could be made to pay for the years of tests and development costs. I have seen up till now only photos of the El.Zt.Z. S/30, but never a real specimen, also a few 10000s were made up till 1945.
Greetings,
Bellifortis.
 
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