Does section 58 (Obsolete Calibre) include machine guns?

[Falcon]

Does anyone know if section 58 (Obsolete Calibre) includes machine guns?

I was wondeing this as 11 x 59R French Gras is on the list. During WW1, Colt made Vickers MGs in this calibre for aircraft.

If a gun came up for sale, could it be owned under Section 58, or does it not apply to machine guns?

 

[smle2009]

Wouldn't have thought so as full automatic is section 5 anyway

 

[Falcon]

There are plenty of revolver and some semi-auto pistol calibres on there. These firearms would also normally be Section 5.

 

[smle2009]

On where?....do you mean on the obsolete calibre ammunition list or obsolete calibre revolvers/pistols for sale?.....I have never seen obsolete calibre handguns(section 58) offered for sale unrestricted...one common mistake people make about the obsolete calibre thing is thinking that there is no longer any ammo listed on the obsolete calibre list left,it in fact means that neither of the English proof houses have any proof rounds of that calibre...yes you can buy a section 58 weapon off ticket but if you intend to shoot it you have to register it as section 1 or 5 ect......the 577/450 martini Henry is a perfect example...on the obsolete calibre list but plenty of ammo around for it and still even manufactured today.

I'm fairly sure that you will find it's a case of a machine gun is a machine gun is a machine gun therefore section 5

 

[2pounder]

have you read the small print on the official obsolete cal. list? there may be a clue there. Cant help thinking even a legal off ticket mg would be so much trouble its not worth considering.

 

[Falcon]

Firstly, I'm not actually considering buying an 11mm Gras Vickers. Even if one did come up for sale, I'm sure it would be priced far higher than I could afford.

I have seen a lot of obsolete calibre pistols for sale. Belgian 7mm Pinfires are common. The 11mm French and 10.6mm German revolvers are also around.

Here is a good example:

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Antique-Pistol-Hand-guns/Reichsrevolver-1879-gun-for-sale-gs127237.aspx

 

[exat808]

My view ( as a part time Police FEO) is - yes you may possess a weapon that may elsewhere in the Firearms Acts be defined as prohibited (Sect 5) if the weapon was manufactured in a calibre specified in the obsolete list.
The references from the Home office Guide are as follows -

8.1
Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts
from the provisions of the Act – including
certificate controls under sections 1 and 2
and prohibition under section 5 – all antique
firearms which are sold, transferred,
purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities
or ornaments. The word “antique” is not
defined in the Act and it is for the chief
officer of police and for the Courts to
consider each case on its merits. However, it
is suggested that the categories in this Chapter
should be used as a guide in deciding whether
a particular firearm might be considered an
“antique” for these purposes.


Old weapons which should
benefit from exemption as antiques
under section 58 (2) of the Firearms
Act 1968

8.5
Pre-1939 weapons to benefit from


exemption as antiques are as follows:

d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally

chambered for one of the obsolete

cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which

retain their original chambering