Could someone identify this case from this headstamp?

[Kilroy]

I have purchased this 37mm brass case as an "odds and ends" type thing, but I would
really like to know what it is just for my own info. Is it a Hotchkiss or could it have been
a Winchester or what? The case is 5.375 inches long, and all particulars otherwise should
be evident from the headstamp.

Thanks,
Walt

Here is a picture:

 

[highlandotter]

BSC= Bethlehem Steel Co. PEMCo= Poole Engineering and Machine Co. 37x134R US heavy 1 Pdr. these were export goods to Russia, France and England during WW1. Some were found in Spain during their Civll War as Russia sent some WW1 Mclean guns to the volunteers there. Bethlehem Steel made an infantry gun which the French purchased which the used the US heavy 1pdr round. The Mclean automatic gun used the same round, at first with a narrower rotating band, but could use the normal US round. I saw a Russian propaganda film on TV and there was a Mclean gun fighting the Germans in WW2. Must have dragged it out of some museum as a left behind of the Spanish War.

 

[EOD]

Highlandotter, any info available as for why there are 2 manufacturers indicated in the hs?

 

[highlandotter]

Pemco made cases. . BSc made the guns and projectiles .Other manufacturers also made cases. The rounds were made and sold during latter years ofWW1. Notice they are marked 37mm, not 1 pdr. The French reloaded some of these cases with their own projectiles. so there are varieties other than the US found in place.

 

[EOD]

Thank you for clarification. So is it not odd that the "BSC" is on the hs then?

 

[Kilroy]

Thank you Highlandotter!

Would it be correct to say that these kinds of cases cold have been formed to be chambered by a French Hotchkiss gun of some type?

Kiloroy

BSC= Bethlehem Steel Co. PEMCo= Poole Engineering and Machine Co. 37x134R US heavy 1 Pdr. these were export goods to Russia, France and England during WW1. Some were found in Spain during their Civll War as Russia sent some WW1 Mclean guns to the volunteers there. Bethlehem Steel made an infantry gun which the French purchased which the used the US heavy 1pdr round. The Mclean automatic gun used the same round, at first with a narrower rotating band, but could use the normal US round. I saw a Russian propaganda film on TV and there was a Mclean gun fighting the Germans in WW2. Must have dragged it out of some museum as a left behind of the Spanish War.

 

[highlandotter]

No. BSC is the primary head stamp . the secondary might be PEMCo, UMC or some other.

 

[highlandotter]

Yes. The US Navy used Hotchkiss 1 pdr heavy guns and others,, Driggs, etc .All single barrel quick firing guns. The round was designed for these. Then Bethlehem Steel made a field or infantry gun which they sold to the French in WW1, but was not found satisfactory by the French. Looks like a nice gun , though. There are a couple in private hands in the US in states that are rational, and are fired today. When the Mclean automatic gun was developed, it used the basic round and in desperation or a good salesman, Russia bought them in WW1. They then found out why the US did not adopt them and they passed them on to Spain in the 1930s. There are quite a few variations in rounds with different projectiles and manufacturers.

 

[Gspragge]

The French first wanted these guns to counter German Amoured Cars in 1915, but were unable to buy them due to intransigence at the U.S. State Dept. Later the attitude changed (March 1916) and eventually they purchased 100. These were issued to antitank batteries and there were 80 guns fielded by January 1918. Beginning in March these guns were being transferred to the American Forces. They were adopted as an interim antitank gun so as such were the worlds first official Antitank gun. But they were some what awkward and there was a definite lack of German tanks at the time, so the French stayed with the smaller 1916 37mm gun for close support. The 1918 round was likely purchased for use by The U.S. Army over here. The French purchased some 380,000 rounds, much of which was just cases which they loaded with there own projectiles. The gun is the same as used by the American Navy as a subcaliber gun (Navy marked cases and the T-MKV projectile) only now mounted on a field carriage. The projectiles are the same over the years only with different markings, but the 1918 base fuze changed. Bethlehem Steel made the guns and projectiles but subcontracted out the cases to either U.M.C., P.E.& M.Co. and the Toledo Brass & Copper Co.

 

[Falcon]

Do you have any info on the use of the 1 Pounder heavy by the UK that you mentioned?

 

[highlandotter]

The British Navy had only 12 Bethlehem guns used as AA guns. Supposedly, some of these cases were loaded with British made projectiles, but the American contract used Us mk 1 projectiles. UMC made the cases.

 

[Gspragge]

The whole thing of UK use is unclear, supposedly some guns were purchased for use on some small coastal boats, but were damaged in transit. Then they were used as subcaliber barrels on a training ship. There is a definite reference in a book that shows the manufacture of 1 pdr projectiles and casings in 1916. The section on the casings alludes to a large quantity of the empty (primed ?) cases being shipped to the UK, the quantities seem large. Unused primed casings dated 1915 show up in the UK and sometimes PE&MCo cases do in unused condition. I have yet to see any official information on the use of these and if so how they were loaded-- It remains something of a mystery.

Maybe I am talking about the same thing as the Otter in the previous reply -- ?

 

[Kilroy]

Well, thank you all for a robust and infomative identity on this case!

Kilroy:tinysmile_classes_t