CAV Mills No. 23 Mk I

[Millsman]

A couple of years ago I bought two chrome plated Mills grenades from a collector. I recently had the plating removed and on one it revealed the makers mark CAV (Charles Anthony Vandervell) plus a tiny shield. We have seen these shields on various makers grenades and they all tend to be high quality castings. Snufkin thinks it is some kind of Guild mark and I agree with him on that. However the makers mark being cast onto a No. 5 / 23 type body is rarer. The grenade also has the cast number in one of the side grooves. As far as I know only CAV did this.

Here's a couple of photos.

 

[Snufkin]

No.5 type bodies with a shield mark under the lever and a mould or batch number on the edge of a serration appear from time to time (first attached image), and there are some bodies with a maker's initials on the lugs and a serration-placed batch number, such as the JHCL bodies (second attached image, courtesy of late member AE501).

I once considered the shield to be an iron founder's guild marking, but for the last ten years I have regarded it as the maker's mark of John Harper and Co. Ltd. John Harper was one iron foundry that produced grenade bodies on a sub contractor basis to various Mills primes, and in the case of the Vandervell bodies, produced castings also with that company's marking - CAV in an oval.

Harper went on to produce sub contract No.23 III (No.36) castings, for firms including Edgar, Moorwoods, Vaughn and others - again shield and a numeral underneath the lever.

 

[Millsman]

Interesting. Good update.

 

[Millsman]

It's interesting that CAV were (seemingly) the only company to have the small number cast into the vertical grooves. I've often wondered how they made the mould so fine. The shield marking always seems to be on high quality castings.

 

[Snufkin]

It's interesting that CAV were (seemingly) the only company to have the small number cast into the vertical grooves.

I don't quite follow that observation - the second photo I attached in post #2 shows two John Harper-made No.5 grenades with the numbers cast into serration edges. The first photo shows four Harper-made ( shield mark) No.5s with numbers cast into the serration edges, but only one can be said to be made for CAV.

It was John Harper, as an expert pre-war grey and malleable iron founder, that used the small numbers on the No.5s. Fine detail such as tiny letters and numerals are easily done by impressing the patterns for the sand casting.

 

[Millsman]

I've got two other No.5s / 23 Mk Is with small numbers cast in the edges, both came with CAV baseplugs but didn't have the CAV name cast on the back. I take that third one to be a No. 23 MkII from the time at the end of the war when all No. 23 Mk III and No. 36 grenades had a makers name cast on the body.

 

[Snufkin]

All four No.5 in the photo of post #2 have CAV base plugs - simply because I furnished them that way many years ago, in the misunderstanding that the small edge numerals meant manufacture by Vandervell rather than the subcontract iron founder, John Harper.

Bodies without the CAV marking could well have been made for Vandervell as well as for the many other firms Harper serviced. It is certainly plausible that Vandervell asked for their mark to be put on late production No.23II in order to meet with the instructions for No.23III.

The photos in post #2 of the No.23III and No.36 show Harper complied with the latest marking instructions by putting the initials of the primes on a segment below the filler hole, while discretely putting their own mark and batch numeral in the lever recess.

 

[Millsman]

Here's a complete update.

A couple of years ago I bought a collection of 20+ Mills grenades. It contained a No. 5 with a CAV base plug and had the small numbers in the grooves.
There was also a No. 23 Mk I with a CAV base plug and the number in the groove. In the same collection was a chromed No.5. I can't remember the base plug. When the chrome plating was removed it revealed the small shield and the CAV in and oval sign.

Clearly these grenades were not random and were possibly connected to someone at CAV (the collection came from London). So I think that it is safe to assume only CAV had these small numbers cast into the grenade - your original assumption being correct.

 

[Snufkin]

Clearly these grenades were ... possibly connected to someone at CAV (the collection came from London). So I think that it is safe to assume only CAV had these small numbers cast into the grenade

The evidence tends to suggest otherwise, and with my final post on this thread I attach two photos courtesy of the late Mike Saffery.

Another Mills grenade made by the sub-contract manufacturer John Harper and Company Ltd. Spot the little number cast into the serration edge...

 

[Millsman]

I wonder if the makers specified this to keep the casters accountable? Saying that, the shield marked grenades all seem to be higher quality than the average.