Can anyone identify this shell case?

[ben2000]

Hi,

Can anyone identify this shell case i have? It's the one in the middle of the first photo between a 2pdr and a 6pdr case.

It was obviously made in 1899, and has a strange screw thread where the primer would have been, and there are two oval shaped holes where i expected there to be crimps? There is corrosion in the holes so they're not recent additions and they are exactly opposite each other.

If anyone can let me know what gun it was used in etc that would be great and whether the holes are meant to be there.

 

[HAZORD]

Diameter of the case mouth and length?

 

[Gspragge]

Would this use

a large screw in external primer, with a ribbed edge ? I have seen this on the site before, if it does I can likely get one.

 

[ben2000]

Will do

Diameter of the case mouth and length?

Hi,

When i get home from work i'll grab my rule and post some dimensions. I was wondering if it's a cut down 3pdr? I don't have a 3pdr case in my collection to compare it with.

 

[Dronic69]

Hi,

The base shot indicates (well to me anyway!) that it is possibly a 47mm (3pdr) Mk 2 case. The base markings have "similarities" to my 47mm HE round, however yours does indeed appear to be shortened as the 47mm QF case is necked. (see below) The round I have is dated 1897.

There is also the Mk 1 case, which is quite rare - my understanding is this case is shorter than the Mk2 and had an earlier production date......I just can't find the reference with the details on the Mk1 at this point.
Cheers
Drew

 

[ben2000]

Thank you Drew,

I thought i had been cut down, oh well. It is marked as a Mk II which has been deleted and IV stamped above. It is also odd that it has been annealed twice but no additional F's added??

Dimensions: base diameter is 2.5", case length is 9 3/4" and opening is just over 2"(53mm!)

Ben

 

[Falcon]

I saw this case on ebay and contacted the seller for more information as I thought it looked interesting. I actually saved the photos and was going to ask about it on here.

The screw thread and slots may have been added if it was a piece of trench art at one stage. It could well have been cut down in service to use as a blank, as 9.8 inches (248.92 mm) was the official length for a 3Pr blank.

That could explain why it was annealed twice but never got another full charge fired in it. This could aslo be why the "II" is crossed out.

See the official diagram spotter posted in this thread:

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/early-6-pounder-t72797.html

 

[ben2000]

3pdr blank

Thankyou Falcon your information was just what I needed. On the assumption that it's a 3pdr blank I had a hunt through my copy of the treatise on ammunition.
It is stated that "two slots are cut near the mouth to receive the braid used to secure the charge".
There was a brass pin that projected from the head of the primer which would have run in the thread shown on my case. So I'm pretty happy that it is a totally original mkIV 3pdr blank converted from a fired mkII case.

Thanks for your pic Drew, that's a great looking round. I love these old British cases

 

[2pounder]

3pr

the maker is Kings Norton of Birmingham. 2pr

 

[Dronic69]

It is stated that "two slots are cut near the mouth to receive the braid used to secure the charge".

Yes I did indeed wonder about those two slots - certainly not normally found on the cut-down "trench art" items.

Great information on the 3pr Blank case - just wondering now how many I may have "disregarded" over the years thinking that they were "trench art"! :tinysmile_angry_t:

Cheers
Drew

 

[headspace]

3pr blank

hi guys,i have two 3pr blanks in my collection,one dated 1972 measures approx 250mm in length the other dated 1903 measures approx 195mm in length,has a turned in case mouth and is marked 12oz,all literature i have seen on the 3pr blank states 11oz of powder not 12.

 

[Dronic69]

Thank you Drew,

It is also odd that it has been annealed twice but no additional F's added??

Ben

I gather that you are referring to the "C.F" on yours and the "C.F.F" on mine?

I often wondered what those markings meant - stupid question - what did the "C" stand for?

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[ben2000]

I often wondered what those markings meant - stupid question - what did the "C" stand for?

Hi Drew,

The 'C' is generally regarded as standing for 'Charge' and the 'F' as 'Full'. I believe it originally stood for Cordite (And cases filled with Black Powder had a 'P') but once they stopped filling cases with powder and only ever used cordite i think it just became known as standing for Charge. Then if the case was re-used a second or third time etc an additional F (or and 'R' if it was filled with a reduced charge) was stamped next to original stamped CF, so you could end up with a stamp that looks like: CFRFF. When the case is re-used they anneal the case to re-work it, so a stamp of an 'A' in a circle is added and each time they anneal it it gets a punch mark added next to it.

Hope that helps,

Ben.

 

[Falcon]

Please could someone post a diagram of the primer with the pin in the side fitted to the case.

 

[ben2000]

Pic

Please could someone post a diagram of the primer with the pin in the side fitted to the case.

Hi, unless someone beats me to it, I'll try taking a pic of the diagram in the Treatise for you later.

Ben.

P.s. If anyone has said primer for sale PM me

 

[Dronic69]

Thanks Ben for the excellent explanation re the markings!

You also cover my other queries on the "A" in the circle and the punch marks.

Cheers
Drew